Avery's Meltdowns

[ppp000]

In the most important game of the season, with the Nuggets already on a small run, Avery loses his cool over something useless, this triggers Josh to another tech and next thing you now, ALL our momentum and confidence is gone. Hmmm reminds me of that Spurs game in SA when we were leading by 10+ and then Avery and Terry get double techs to swing the momentum and lose the game.

This is why this team will never win anything. Reminds me also of Avery losing his cool and his mind during GS and Mia when things got tough and the calls weren't going our way.

This team is not mentally tough and it starts and begins with the head coach, I don't want to hear all that bullsh*t about Avery being our leader.

[kz1m9w]

I say its starts with the owner, not the head coach.

If the top guy overtly endorses a culture of victimization, it will trickle down.

[oldeagle]

bulll,,,,it is the head coach... keeping stack in when it is obvious wright would do better....cmon...avery is the fault...check the numbers....he is given a team that goes to the finals...then goes,,,67 and out in th efirst round,,,now won't even make the playoffs....Yes it is Avery...Couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag...

[JES12]

I miss Don Nelson's tech. When he would get ejected, we would come back & win. Especially when he kicks the ball in the stands.

[ppp000]

Yes Cuban is a part of that, but if Avery were a good leader, he would set the tone. The tone he sets is too whine and fold when things get tough and calls aren't favorable to the team.

Also look at this team's offense, when defenses tighten or the jumpshoots don't fall, Avery is literally incapable of adjusting to another offense.

This team is majorly flawed and I'm glad the FO is forced to see and deal with it now after two years of excuses
"Oh we made the finals".....but then lost a 2-0 lead in a mental breakdown
"Oh we won 67 games in teh regular season".....but then lost in the first round in another breakdown.

Avery set the tone during those failures, trying to spread the blame around, calling out the team for not showing enough leadership while he ranted and raved and did his usual physco babble shtick instead of adjusting the offense.

[Rand10]

Time for a fresh start with a new coach.

[aschneider970]

Time for a fresh start with a new coach.

ahah you beat me to it...

[DDansby123]

This is amazing. Anyone who just watched the second half saw a group of quitters...and the only finger we seem to be capable of pointing is at the coach. It's sad that I actually have to defend his recent idiocy, but, again, Avery's not the one on the floor giving up. Avery's not the one shrinking from adversity. Yes, it's the coach's responsibility to get his players "up" for a game, but good grief, I wish a single player on this team would grow a set and finish a game like a man. This weak stuff is pathetic.

And let's be clear about something: anyone who thinks Avery is responsible for all this team's problems doesn't have much faith in the players either.

[oldeagle]

Mark,,,,ok I will be your GM. First fire the front office...yes GM ,,,Head Coach and all the hangers on.....Next tell the team to play...Stack on the 2nd team...with Terry...but used for trade bait....Wright is younger and has more athleticisim (spelling)-its the wine. Kid and damp an excellent combo...play them more. Make Josh get to the basket or hit the road...enough...they are paid to play ball. Have Bass & Mags make some hard fouls ....I am going to bed...I have seen enough of this team...Mark make some improvement or I am gone,,,, I could be watching CSI

[ppp000]

The roster needs major re-tooling and I agree about what you said about the players, but please tell me how many players in the league can actually dominate and finish all the time? So you're blaming Josh Howard for not playing like Kobe down the stretch? Or Stackhouse for not playing like Carmelo? These players are what they are, is this a surprise? Howard, Stack, Terry are all inconsistent jumpshooters, nothing new.

I never said everything is on Avery, but yes I do believe a large part is. He sets the tone for the team as the self-designated "leader," he is the one unable to make adjustments or rally his team when he's screaming on the sidelines on every play and then the first one in the ref's faces whining after an unfavorable call.

[BMF Jet Jaguar]

were not getting a better coach then avery...there just not out there

[DDansby123]

The roster needs major re-tooling and I agree about what you said about the players, but please tell me how many players in the league can actually dominate and finish all the time? So you're blaming Josh Howard for not playing like Kobe down the stretch? Or Stackhouse for not playing like Carmelo? These players are what they are, is this a surprise? Howard, Stack, Terry are all inconsistent jumpshooters, nothing new.

Why can I not blame the players for failing? "They are what they are" is a cop-out, because if this is what they are, I don't want them.

I never said everything is on Avery, but yes I do believe a large part is. He sets the tone for the team as the self-designated "leader," he is the one unable to make adjustments or rally his team when he's screaming on the sidelines on every play and then the first one in the ref's faces whining after an unfavorable call.

I'm sorry, but I again think this is a cop-out. I just don't think it's Avery's job (or any coach's) to infuse his team with EVERYTHING it takes to win a championship...like guts and determination. The coach can only bring so much to the table.

Yes, Avery has been lacking in a lot of areas this year, but, IMO, it doesn't really matter since the major components of a championship team simply don't appear to be there. Guts and determination are two of those missing components. Championship talent is another. The list goes on and on. I actually blame Avery more for his role in determining which players are on this team than for his coaching.

[ppp000]

So you're saying Avery's
1. stagnant ISO offense, predictable, easy to defend and inability to adjust
2. playcalling on every play (why did he want Kidd then?)
3. being outcoached in two consecutive playoff failures

is on the players for not having guts and determination?

I don't think saying the players are who they are is a cop-out. That's why I say this is a good thing about this season is that it is forcing the FO to see the inabilities of the majority of the players on this team, instead of using whatever excuses they used to justify keeping the same, aging roster of one-dimensional jumpshooters.

And this thread isn't about "Avery, it's all his fault"
It is about Avery's lack of composure and mental toughness and how it trickles down and affects the players as well. Or is that also a "cop-out"?

[DDansby123]

So you're saying Avery's
1. stagnant ISO offense, predictable, easy to defend and inability to adjust
2. playcalling on every play (why did he want Kidd then?)
3. being outcoached in two consecutive playoff failures

is on the players for not having guts and determination?

Not even close. I've already blamed Avery for all those things (repeatedly) and never once put those failures on the players' shoulders.

But you have to realize that we're talking about monumental collapses, not a few losses that can be attributed to a coach's mistakes. When you lose like we did to Miami and Golden State, and when you have a stretch against good teams like we've had here, the fault MUST lie with the players first and foremost. Why in the world would it not?

The funny thing is, not one of the things you mentioned above has been the biggest reason why the Mavs have lost so many close games recently. It's the players on the court who have made stupid mistakes and basically found ways to lose.

I don't think saying the players are who they are is a cop-out. That's why I say this is a good thing about this season is that it is forcing the FO to see the inabilities of the majority of the players on this team, instead of using whatever excuses they used to justify keeping the same, aging roster of one-dimensional jumpshooters.

I agree.

And this thread isn't about "Avery, it's all his fault"

Perhaps not, but everyone here should at least admit that he's received more of the blame than anyone else, and there have been a LOT of fans here blaming Avery COMPLETELY for the team's troubles.

It is about Avery's lack of composure and mental toughness and how it trickles down and affects the players as well. Or is that also a "cop-out"?

It's only a cop-out if you fail to mention the other half of the equation. To wit, Avery's attitude can only infect the players if the players are so mentally weak that they can't maintain their own levels of intensity, guts, determination, focus, etc., etc.

And how exactly has Avery shown more lack of composure/mental toughness than his players? For all you and I know, Avery may be taking on the persona of his team, rather than vice versa.

Either way, it's a two-way street. But when it comes right down to it, I just think the players on the floor have more to do with winning and losing (particularly the latter) than the coach. And in watching the games, I see no reason to think differently, coaching mistakes or not.

[JES12]

Whoever decided to focus (only) on a Harris-Kidd swap instead of a Terry-Miller, Terry-Arterst, or Terry-Maggette base swap deserves the most blame.

Honestly, I can't tell you who that person is, but it's not the players....well, Dirk did have a big part of the Harris-Kidd swap, so maybe it is Dirk + members of the front office.

[mavsfoty]

I'm tired of people complaining about the trade.

Diop never got any PT. DH didn't have the freedom or offense here that he has now. Avery controls these things...

Kidd makes Dirk and Dampier better. Avery's system won't allow Kidd to make J-Ho and others better.

I like Avery. I applaud him at what he's accomplished, but he needs to adjust to what he has in front of him. He's severly stubborn and not the best X's and O's guy. He's a strong motivator but given what has happened over the past two seasons even his pep talks are probably wearing a little thin on guys like Dirk and Howard.

He just needs to adjust the offense to its strengths.

[sosafan70]

This is amazing. Anyone who just watched the second half saw a group of quitters...and the only finger we seem to be capable of pointing is at the coach. It's sad that I actually have to defend his recent idiocy, but, again, Avery's not the one on the floor giving up. Avery's not the one shrinking from adversity. Yes, it's the coach's responsibility to get his players "up" for a game, but good grief, I wish a single player on this team would grow a set and finish a game like a man. This weak stuff is pathetic.

And let's be clear about something: anyone who thinks Avery is responsible for all this team's problems doesn't have much faith in the players either.

DDans always says what I'm thinking only way more eloquently and precise then I ever could.


The three main guys we needed to have success this year are playing some of the most inconsistent ball ever.

What happened to Jet being able to shoot the ball?
What happened to Josh's 2nd half game?
What happened to Stack being a team leader, yet when trying to put the team on his shoulders he ends up shooting us out of the ball game?
What happened to our supposed depth?

Our players are becoming more and more spare as the years go on. Blow this team up and keep Dirk, Bass, Wright, and Kidd.

The players we currently have are just not complementary to Kidd's best attributes

[ppp000]

And why would those teams trade those players for Terry?
This isn't so much about the Kidd trade, but more about a team that has failed twice in the postseason in an embarassing manner.

The way Avery handled the team in the MIA and GS series is indicative to me of the "tough leader" label he has as being a facade. By calling out his players (Dirk), calling out the refs, trying to play mind games with Nellie, losing his cool on the "poisonous" media...in general the way he handled himself and the team when the going got tough by forcing the same forced offense and relying on favorable calls is why I say that Avery and the team's meltdowns are tied together. Whether he adopted that persona here or not doesnt matter, b/c that's who he is now and everyone knows Avery sets the tone for the team perhaps more than the average coach b/c he micromanages every aspect.

And yes that is also on the players. But it is also the same players who the FO and Avery invested faith in despite their obvious limitations. The big contracts of Terry, Stackhouse are good example. The offseason bringing in of old spares like EJ, Juwan instead of younger players is also a good example.
This team needs a major re-tooling.

[ppp000]

I'm tired of people complaining about the trade.

Diop never got any PT. DH didn't have the freedom or offense here that he has now. Avery controls these things...

Kidd makes Dirk and Dampier better. Avery's system won't allow Kidd to make J-Ho and others better.

I like Avery. I applaud him at what he's accomplished, but he needs to adjust to what he has in front of him. He's severly stubborn and not the best X's and O's guy. He's a strong motivator but given what has happened over the past two seasons even his pep talks are probably wearing a little thin on guys like Dirk and Howard.

He just needs to adjust the offense to its strengths.

I agree. While the trade looks bad, I still maintain that the team was majorly flawed before as well. Perhaps we have even more flaws now, but at least we're being forced to see the limitations of most of the players and Avery vs. a much much tougher Western conf with teams that are getting better and better.

[DDansby123]

Let me clarify something here...

I do believe that the players are who they are....I just don't think their flaws should excuse them from blame. And when I do place blame on them (for being the flawed players they are), I'm necessarily blaming management for bringing those flawed players in here in the first place.

I think this team is underperforming right now, and that's the fault of the players and the coach. And I think they performed about as well as possible last year, which again was the result of solid performances by the players and the coach. But at their core, they're a 4-5 seed, middle of the road WC team. And the responsibility for that falls on the front office.

To me, the team's talent level has to improve (and that means championship-level talent that meshes well and is complementary, not the 2-PG backcourt or 3-PF frontcourt crap we've used in the past). Before that happens, IMO, the coaching doesn't mean much.