I think JJ...

[Catledge]

The SAS game may not be proof that he will never be an NBA player, but it's pretty good evidence that he hasn't shown that he deserves to be taking minutes away from Evans and Bogans.

[maginno]

The SAS game may not be proof that he will never be an NBA player, but it's pretty good evidence that he hasn't shown that he deserves to be taking minutes away from Evans and Bogans.

Nonsense. If battie comes back and has a bad game will that prove anything after being out for the season? He'd need at least a week to get back into form and in that one week he'd probably play more minutes than JJ has payed in the last three months. One game means nothing. Players are evaluated over a course of several games. stats indicate very clearly that when JJ gets 10+ minutes he scores near double digits or more. thats been seen over several games. So in what world do all those games outweigh the one game he didn't even get the ten minutes.

Might as well be Ostriches the way you all put your head in the sand when the stats prove you wrong and yeah - they do.

[Potterman]

The SAS game may not be proof that he will never be an NBA player, but it's pretty good evidence that he hasn't shown that he deserves to be taking minutes away from Evans and Bogans.

I recall watching Bogans miss four free throws in a row while JJ made both of his. Is this a good arguement to why Bogans is better then JJ?

[Potterman]

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Nonsense. If battie comes back and has a bad game will that prove anything after being out for the season? He'd need at least a week to get back into form and in that one week he'd probably play more minutes than JJ has payed in the last three months. One game means nothing. Players are evaluated over a course of several games. stats indicate very clearly that when JJ gets 10+ minutes he scores near double digits or more. thats been seen over several games. So in what world do all those games outweigh the one game he didn't even get the ten minutes.

Might as well be Ostriches the way you all put your head in the sand when the stats prove you wrong and yeah - they do.

Careful if you keep this (posative-feeling) attitude up there gonna ask for another ipcheck.

[magictreat]

I never liked the pick, he wasn't an NBA player , IMO.

[mhectorgato]

I never liked the pick, he wasn't an NBA player , IMO.

Right ... at the time he wasn't an NBA player.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

Ugh... I only saw highlights and he DID look dejected, and not too interested in even being out on the floor.

That really bothered me more than anything else... I'm still afraid that he will be a magic killer, but just that look on sportscenter almost convinced me that it's time for him to go.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

No one can accept the fact that he is just not an NBA player. It is excuse after excuse that you guys keep making for him. When he gets in, he does poorly. But of course the reason for that is no confidence any more. It couldn't possibly be that EVERYONE on the floor is more athletic than him and can actually play defense, unlike college.

But of course if he just sits on the bench, he isn't getting a chance to prove that he is the COLLEGE player of the year and how great he is. It isn't that he doesn't deserve to play, can't play defense, and looks lost out on the floor unless we are specifically running him off 100 screens to try and get him a look that he can miss.

Accept that he is not a good NBA player.

I would expect nothing less than a Tar Heel...

You must still be sore from all of the times J.J. killed Carolina, especially when he put 35-points on the Tar Heels in Chapel Hill.

Is all this hate necessary? If you Magic fans aren't careful, you just might miss the chance to appreciate one of the best shooters in recent memory. You'll miss the only player that must literally be guarded as soon as he crosses half-court.

The guy has only played in 29 games this year. And, when he does get in its just token minutes. It's actually a very sad situation. But he does seem to make pretty good use of his time on the floor, which is evident by his career 37% from the 3-point line - that is pretty damn good considering he sits on his butt for 2-hours and then is expected to come in and perform.

[Catledge]

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Nonsense. If battie comes back and has a bad game will that prove anything after being out for the season? He'd need at least a week to get back into form and in that one week he'd probably play more minutes than JJ has payed in the last three months. One game means nothing. Players are evaluated over a course of several games. stats indicate very clearly that when JJ gets 10+ minutes he scores near double digits or more. thats been seen over several games. So in what world do all those games outweigh the one game he didn't even get the ten minutes.

Might as well be Ostriches the way you all put your head in the sand when the stats prove you wrong and yeah - they do.

Your Battie comparison doesn't really hold water for two major reasons. First, Battie has a long track record as a competent NBA player. That is, he has far more evidence to indicate he can contribute than a handful of ten-minute stretches. And second, he gives us something that we lack -- toughness and interior defense at the 4. JJ, on the other hand, gives us something that we already have (shooting), and makes us worse at something that we are already inconsistent at (defense).

And speaking of heads in the sand, doesn't the fact that JJ makes a catastrophically bad defensive play for every nice offensive play count for something? I want him to do well and be a productive player, but with Bogans and Evans shooting the ball pretty well in addition to bringing defense and rebounding, it seems to me that JJ would have to shoot the lights out to earn significant time over them.

[Bigmagicfan82]

I have to say that his body language has been awful. He doenst have that im ready to play whenever attitude that alot of veterans have. His lack of playing has gotten to him mentally.

That is exactly what I am saying. I'm not trying to say one game in particular shows that he gave up but overall he just seems like he doesn't care anymore. Like last year and even earlier this he came out and he played his a** and was really good. Not it just looks like he is going through the motions and chucking up shots.

[craig01]

Redick is really in a bad situation.

Whether or not he is a bona fide NBA player remains to be seen, but his role has been given nearly the same treatment as Augustine and Gortat.

It's kind of a cruel, cruel blow for someone that has such a storied past.

As bad as it is though, he needs to keep his head on straight and chin held high. After the season he can do or say what he wants........

[maginno]

Your Battie comparison doesn't really hold water for two major reasons. First, Battie has a long track record as a competent NBA player. That is, he has far more evidence to indicate he can contribute than a handful of ten-minute stretches. And second, he gives us something that we lack -- toughness and interior defense at the 4.

and so? Of course he doesn't have a long track record. He's practically a rookie and of course being a guard he doesn't provide interior toughness. Does Bogans and Evans? and of course Battie has greater evidence than 10 minutes stretches because he's actually got more minutes. Finally so what if JJ doesn't provide something we already have. All that means is he isn't a good fit for this team not that he can't play. Thats in fact more or less what Stan has said. We already have players that can hit the three and thats why along with defense issues he doesn't play.

So my argument isn't even why he doesn't play. Its with trying to make an argument that he isn't an NBA player because he doesn't fit one team. That and the fact the GM of the Magic sat on his hands with a player the coach has said he won't play.

[LBPTarHeel27]

I love how much you guys give me to feed off of. I love when these JJ threads pop up so I can debate those who still have some faith in him. I think I'll start with my old buddy...

We will take this step by step...so I don't avoid any of the points you make like you ignore all the evidence I put up. Then I will ask you a few questions, questions which I expect answers from you.

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1. Tarheel we had this discussion not so long ago so I can honestly say you are lying. You know better because it was pointed out to you that 2. every time he gets double digit minutes he's produced double digits or near double digits. You couldn't refute it because the stats are there. Your argument there was that if he got more minutes he'd show it was a fluke. 3. Silly argument but you made it.

4. There is no player in the history of the league that has been at their best after sitting for a month plus. all players have shown rust under that scenario. We all know that 5. if this week he goes out and puts up 10 in ten minutes you would just create another excuse to wave it off so its not a matter of having evidence . There isn't enough evidence to make an arguement either way stick but as usual 6. this has more to do with your tarheel love than it does Magic support. Honestly from your own perspective what kind of Magic fan would be "sitting back and laughing" that we wasted another pick? and you've written that several times. Stick to March madness.

1. Lying? How can you lie when its opinion both ways. Just thought I would point that out.

2. In the 8 games he has played over 10 minutes this season he is averaging 6.6 points. In his rookie season he played 30 games w/ 10+ min. He only averaged 7.3 PPG. Combined over the two seasons he has played 38 averaging 7.1 PPG. Not exactly the numbers you are talking about. Feel free to look it up...it only took me a couple seconds.

3. And I still am...

4. I would like evidence to support this. Come up with a list of every player that has missed a month and show me stats saying that they declined in production. Basically what I am saying is that this is what you do....you blow things up and never make a REAL point.

5. I hope he does. With the injuries he has to step in and probably play 10 minutes. But the law of averages says he doesn't do it....not me. (Well me too, but the stats are there)

6. No...it really doesn't. It has to do with the fact that our argument will never end because you are too stubborn to read what I am actually saying and consider it possible that I am right. You are too drawn in to the fact that I am a Tar Heel fan and that I did hate JJ Redick while at Duke. The fact of the matter is that he is a Magic player now and I have to support him as a member of the team. It does not mean that I can't voice my opinion without bias. I will take a shot at any Magic player if he isn't up to the standards at which he is held. That is what JJ has done. The standards were set far too high for him as an NBA player. People expected too much from him at this level because he can shoot lights out and WAS the collegiate player of the year. What does that mean in the NBA? Nothing. I will save the rest for later in the post...
____
Intermission...grab a drink and go to the bathroom.
____

Welcome back,

We are now going to play a little game called "What Says More?". I will throw out some JJ stats or information from both sides of the argument. You tell me what says more about his capabilities in the NBA.

Here we go!!!

1. The 26 games in which he has played 10+ minutes (10 of which are 15+ min.) and failed to score 10 points VS. The 12 games in which he has scored over 10 points, playing 10+ minutes.

2. The 20 games taking 5+ shots & avg. <35% shooting VS. The 13 games taking 5+ shots & avg. >35%

3. The 84 games he hasn't played a minute in. VS. The 71 games where he has gotten in the game even a minute.

4. The 45 games in which JJ played in a game where we had atleast a 10+ lead VS. The 26 games he has played while the game is still undecided.

5. Ah well I could go on all day...but you get the point. Please respond to those. It would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: I actually would like some one to check those stats to make sure they are 100% accurate... if anyone is up for it.

[BassMaster]

Actually checked the stats like on the first West Coast swing where JJ got some good minutes and the coach said he played great, but for all that he got benched.
I don't expect much out of a tied in the wool tarheel fan who can't get over that JJ did well against the tarheels when he was at Duke.
Guess what he is no longer in college and yes if given the chance he can shine for the Magic.
If you need to keep on hating Duke I am sure there is a forum like the ACC forums where you post all your hate about Duke and Duke players to your hearts content.

[LBPTarHeel27]

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I would expect nothing less than a Tar Heel...

You must still be sore from all of the times J.J. killed Carolina, especially when he put 35-points on the Tar Heels in Chapel Hill.

Is all this hate necessary? If you Magic fans aren't careful, you just might miss the chance to appreciate one of the best shooters in recent memory. You'll miss the only player that must literally be guarded as soon as he crosses half-court.

The guy has only played in 29 games this year. And, when he does get in its just token minutes. It's actually a very sad situation. But he does seem to make pretty good use of his time on the floor, which is evident by his career 37% from the 3-point line - that is pretty damn good considering he sits on his butt for 2-hours and then is expected to come in and perform.

Welcome to the board...now leave.

Number of National Titles while JJ Redick was at Duke:
UNC: 1
Duke: 0


So just wait till people like MJ, Kobe, LeBron, etc...get the ball to really start to play D on them or what? Saying that JJ is the ONLY player is a pretty damn bold statement. I know I am being over the top by saying that...but so are you.

[BassMaster]

[quote="LBPTarHeel27"][/quote]

Number of National titles won by Kobe and LeBron zero.
Don't see your point.

[LBPTarHeel27]

Keep it comin...

Actually checked the stats like on the first West Coast swing where JJ got some good minutes and the coach said he played great, but for all that he got benched.
I don't expect much out of a tied in the wool tarheel fan who can't get over that JJ did well against the tarheels when he was at Duke.
Guess what he is no longer in college and yes if given the chance he can shine for the Magic.
If you need to keep on hating Duke I am sure there is a forum like the ACC forums where you post all your hate about Duke and Duke players to your hearts content.

Funny...I think I said something in my post about how people ignore the stats & facts I put down and take it straight back to the fact that I am a Tar Heel fan.

Why don't you look at my post again, answer those questions and forget that it is even JJ Redick we are talking about. I am more than willing to answer some of your own when some one can come up with the stats.

Now let's take a lil trip in time back to when JJ was at Duke.

He went to 1 Final 4...and lost before the title game.
UNC went to 1 during his 4 year span...and won the title.

Tournament Outstanding Player Awards:
JJ Redick: 0
Sean May: 1

JJ's 4 Tourny finishes...
2003: Lost in Sweet 16 as Top seed overall
2004: Lost in Sweet 16 as 2nd #1 seed
2005: Lost in Final 4 as #1 seed
2006: Lost in Sweet 16 as #3 seed

Great guy to have when it really matters I guess. You can say I am picking on him all you want but find some one that is a Tar Heel that was supposed to be the team leader and had finished like that...and I will gladly agree. Especially if it is some one that won CPOY (Should have won it twice) & is supposed to be a top 5 shooter of all time.

JJ could shoot 3's in college...he hasn't shown he can in the NBA...there is no denying it.

I think people just assume JJ killed UNC because he could score. Did anyone ever try and watch him play D on Rashard McCants? Even Jackie Manuel would take it to the hoop and take advantage of him.

He is and always had been a completely one dimensional player...that can work in college. Not the NBA.

[LBPTarHeel27]

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Number of National titles won by Kobe and LeBron zero.
Don't see your point.

The only problem is that your response has nothing to do with what was said. The national title talk doesn't involve them...why would it? They didn't even go to college. I clearly state that when I am speaking of national titles that it is in response to a JJ @ Duke vs. UNC claim.

[BassMaster]

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The only problem is that your response has nothing to do with what was said. The national title talk doesn't involve them...why would it? They didn't even go to college. I clearly state that when I am speaking of national titles that it is in response to a JJ @ Duke vs. UNC claim.

Well you included their names not me.

[LBPTarHeel27]

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Well you included their names not me.

Yes I did. Now go back and read what it was in reference to.