I think JJ...

[BassMaster]

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Yes I did. Now go back and read what it was in reference to.

National titles of course.

[LBPTarHeel27]

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National titles of course.

Keep up the good work.

3-Pt_Shooter

If you Magic fans aren't careful, you just might miss the chance to appreciate one of the best shooters in recent memory. You'll miss the only player that must literally be guarded as soon as he crosses half-court.

Me

So just wait till people like MJ, Kobe, LeBron, etc...get the ball to really start to play D on them or what? Saying that JJ is the ONLY player is a pretty damn bold statement. I know I am being over the top by saying that...but so are you.

[MagicNolesFSU]

cougar, you are disregarding everything he is saying because it isnt your own personal opinion. He keeps giving fact and you are making (Please Use More Appropriate Word) references.

[LBPTarHeel27]

cougar, you are disregarding everything he is saying because it isnt your own personal opinion. He keeps giving fact and you are making (Please Use More Appropriate Word) references.

I really wish I could shake your hand.

Thank you.

[BassMaster]

cougar, you are disregarding everything he is saying because it isnt your own personal opinion. He keeps giving fact and you are making (Please Use More Appropriate Word) references.

I am not replying to people who hate Duke and anybody who played for Duke just doesn't make any sense.

[MagicNolesFSU]

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I am not replying to people who hate Duke and anybody who played for Duke just doesn't make any sense.

That is a very sad excuse for not being able to discount his statistical evidence. Regardless to his personal opinion about a NCAA team he is STILL giving relevant and astute FACTS. It is increasingly obvious that YOUR OWN judgment is more clouded than his.

[maginno]

Why don't you look at my post again, answer those questions and forget that it is even JJ Redick we are talking about.

Why bother? We had the debate before and I was the one who introduced you to the numbers. Facts are outside of a stretch in early december JJ does in fact put double or near double digits up when given 10 or more minutes. Go look at your own numbers. Hardly makes your case that he can't get his shot off in the NBA

and unfortunate for you the stats indicate pretty clearly why he didn't get those points in that stretch - are you ready for it boy genius? - he wasn't taking shots. In that stretch he took 7 shots the entire three games. No doubt working on what Stan had told him was the priority - his defense. try again. I actually watched quite a few of those games and it was obvious JJ wasn't looking for his shot but working on the other aspects of the game trying to get into the rotation

So as - as usual - you just cherry picked the stats you wanted and played ostrich on the rest.

I am a Tar Heel fan and that I did hate JJ Redick while at Duke. The fact of the matter is that he is a Magic player now and I have to support him as a member of the team.

You don't have a thread in here that you support him. You are on record SEVERAL times on these boards as being happy, "laughing" and "enjoying" you own profession that he was a busted pick for the Magic. What kind of Magic fan is elaated when he thinks the organization made a bad pick?

Given that you are on a Magic board using a Tarheel username its obvious where your allegiances truly lie. No one believes you just erased all self confessed hatred of a player and now are totally objective. [/quote]

[maginno]

cougar, you are disregarding everything he is saying because it isnt your own personal opinion. He keeps giving fact and you are making (Please Use More Appropriate Word) references.

kids stuff. Who in their right minds analyzes a player based on large part his rookie season? Thats just silly. Um Okay I'll play, Everyone here loves MO it seems. Rookie year? 4.4 ppg 14% from the arc.

ugh. must be a scrub not our starting SG. How could he ever hit a three pointer? Get the point?

ooh. Can I play some more?

Hedo averaged 16 minutes in his first year in 74 games and showed 5.3 points to show for it playing more minutes in one season then JJ has yet to play. Ugh. Never will be an NBA player then.

OOh can I play some more? How about our 118 million dollar man?

Rashard Lewis first year averaged 24 err no move the decimal point thats 2.4 points in his first year and 8.2 in his second year with 20 minutes per games . Guess he turned out to be an average player in the league eh?

See the problem isn't the stats. the problem is that you have to have some intelligence when you use them. If you don't like I said - child's play.

[BassMaster]

cougar, you are disregarding everything he is saying because it isnt your own personal opinion. He keeps giving fact and you are making (Please Use More Appropriate Word) references.

kids stuff. Who in their right minds analyzes a player based on large part his rookie season? Thats just silly. Um Okay I'll play, Everyone here loves MO it seems. Rookie year? 4.4 ppg 14% from the arc.

ugh. must be a scrub not our starting SG. How could he ever hit a three pointer? Get the point?

ooh. Can I play some more?

Hedo averaged 16 minutes in his first year in 74 games and showed 5.3 points to show for it playing more minutes in one season then JJ has yet to play. Ugh. Never will be an NBA player then.

OOh can I play some more? How about our 118 million dollar man?

Rashard Lewis first year averaged 24 err no move the decimal point thats 2.4 points in his first year and 8.2 in his second year with 20 minutes per games . Guess he turned out to be an average player in the league eh?

See the problem isn't the stats. the problem is that you have to have some intelligence when you use them. If you don't like I said - child's play.

[LBPTarHeel27]

Any one notice how not a single one of the arguments I put up w/ hard facts & numbers has been discussed? Instead...just back to the name calling like last time...

kids stuff.

Who in their right minds

Thats just silly

the problem is that you have to have some intelligence when you use them

If you don't like I said - child's play

However, I will give you credit. For the first time you actually gave numbers instead of just saying you gave numbers. The only thing is that those numbers don't have anything to do with JJ...they are other players. All those numbers you see that I came up with directly involve JJ.

We had the debate before and I was the one who introduced you to the numbers.

I would really like a link to these "numbers" you "introduced" me to.

Hardly makes your case that he can't get his shot off in the NBA

Where did I say in the last post that JJ is incapable of getting off his own shot? I admit I have before, and I still feel that way...but my point is that you constantly minipulate what I say in previous posts.

That little VS. stat about him taking 5+ shots had nothing to do with him being unable to get his own shot...it had to do with the fact that when he does shoot, he is not shooting a good percentage. There is no disputing that...the numbers are there.

I don't really understand how you can say

you would just create another excuse to wave it off so its not a matter of having evidence .

and then go and make your post. Lets go through and pick out all of your excuses and then we will pick out the meaningful JJ Redick numbers...

he wasn't taking shots. In that stretch he took 7 shots the entire three games.

Ok...now how big of an impact do you think that 3 games has on his averages? Not much at all. Take out those 3 games and the stats are fundimentally the same.

No doubt working on what Stan had told him was the priority - his defense

Clearly...it HAS to be a FACT that JJ was just working on his D and trying to improve other aspects. Are you kidding me? Unless you are in the huddle, that is BS you just pulled out of your ass to make an excuse. That is the absolute definition of an excuse.

I actually watched quite a few of those games and it was obvious JJ wasn't looking for his shot but working on the other aspects of the game trying to get into the rotation

Please direct me to which games these were...because they do not exist. When JJ is in there, he is looking for his shot. When JJ is in there, we are actually running plays for him to come off of 30 screens just to get an open look. Try watching that.

you just cherry picked the stats you wanted and played ostrich on the rest.

Ok, if that is the case...un-cherry pick my stats. They took only a couple minutes to come up with. You come up with real stats that shows JJ has promise.

You could at least do that...since you won't answer my questions like I have asked numerous times.

[LBPTarHeel27]

Given that you are on a Magic board using a Tarheel username its obvious where your allegiances truly lie. No one believes you just erased all self confessed hatred of a player and now are totally objective

People don't have to believe that. I never said that I like him. There is a difference between support and liking. I support him because he is on my team now. I would love to see us showcase him, or attempt to...but that is not happening. It is just another sign that he is not cut out for the league.

[LBPTarHeel27]

One more thing...

I would love to see you once break down my post like I do yours are hit every aspect of the post. You reply to the one line in my post of your liking and then ramble on about nothing.

Just try it once, preferably with the post with the stats.

[magicfan217]

it's hard to give JJ a fair assesment based on the very limited minutes he gets. A jumpshooter is going to have a hard time being effective if he is only playing once every 4 or 5 games. Also a number of his shots are forced b/c he rarely gets meaningful minutes, so when he's in mop up duty he forces shots. JJ has looked good just as many if not more times than he has looked bad when given meaningful minutes, and he's never been given a stretch of 10 games or so where he's recieved anything close to 10-15 mpg.



Tarheels is obviously a UNC fan who has a hatred for duke, and that's okay but you have to take his assesment with a grain of salt.

[LBPTarHeel27]

I love how me being a UNC fan means everything but when people like 3ptshooter (JJ in his avatar) and magicfan217 (Location: J to the J) refuse to look at the evidence...it has nothing to do with the fact they are JJ fans.

It's gatta go both ways guys.

The difference in of the two sides right now is that I have provided stat after stat showing my side of the argument. All you get from the opposition is opinion. I am not saying that I am definately right, it is my opinion as well...but I have support for my opinion...you guys just have more opinions.

[magicfan217]

im only a JJ fan because he's on the magic. Im a kentucky basketball fan so i have almost as much bias against him as you do from that perspective.



Your facts are skewed by the fact that JJ has never seen regular legitimate action in an NBA game. He's looked good on the court about as much as he has looked bad.

[MagicFan149]

im only a JJ fan because he's on the magic. Im a kentucky basketball fan so i have almost as much bias against him as you do from that perspective.



Your facts are skewed by the fact that JJ has never seen regular legitimate action in an NBA game. He's looked good on the court about as much as he has looked bad.

this is the best statement in this whole thread... jj these last few games has been anything but impressive ... but go back to earlier in the year and last year he did somethings that make you think he warrants useing a lottery pick on him... his inability to recieve consistent minutes probably causes him to be inconsistent..... to me it now is begining to seem like jj is forceing the issue of showing everyone he is effective which has had an adverse affect in his play.... nobody knows enough to label him a bust or a success... jj's never gonna score 20ppg and most likely will never see an all star game but that doesnt mean that at this time we can say that he cannot become an effective role player in this leauge.

[magicfan217]

his per 48 scoring numbers are better than bogans and evans...and that's saying a lot considering they get regular minutes and JJ doesn't. It's only logical to assume JJ's percentages and per 48 numbers would only increase with a regular role in the rotation.


Obviously Bogans and Evans are superior defensively, and that's why they play. But on another team with different needs one could easily assume JJ would get the nod over Bogans and Evans based on his current numbers alone, and as I said before it's only logical to expect his offensive numbers to improve with regular rotation minutes.

[magicfan217]

his per 48 scoring numbers are better than bogans and evans...and that's saying a lot considering they get regular minutes and JJ doesn't. It's only logical to assume JJ's percentages and per 48 numbers would only increase with a regular role in the rotation.


Obviously Bogans and Evans are superior defensively, and that's why they play. But on another team with different needs one could easily assume JJ would get the nod over Bogans and Evans based on his current numbers alone, and as I said before it's only logical to expect his offensive numbers to improve with regular rotation minutes.

[mhectorgato]

his per 48 scoring numbers are better than bogans and evans...and that's saying a lot considering they get regular minutes and JJ doesn't. It's only logical to assume JJ's percentages and per 48 numbers would only increase with a regular role in the rotation.


Obviously Bogans and Evans are superior defensively, and that's why they play. But on another team with different needs one could easily assume JJ would get the nod over Bogans and Evans based on his current numbers alone, and as I said before it's only logical to expect his offensive numbers to improve with regular rotation minutes.

Per48s are wildly inaccurate when comparing a randomly used bench player to a rotation player.

[magicfan217]

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Per48s are wildly inaccurate when comparing a randomly used bench player to a rotation player.

agreed. Hot streaks appear hotter and cold colder....however if Tar Heels is going to use stats from a randomly used bench player then so am I.


and actually his career per 48 is probably somewhat indicative of what he could do as a player. It's a 71 game sample at 12mpg. Obviously not perfect but a large enough sample probably.