Ainge and Pierce aren't so high on Green anymore

[campybatman]

I feel that Green can be motivated to do well as he was in his first appearance in the slam dunk contest. I reckon it's a matter of what's important to him. Still, Pierce raises some unsettling questions about him. Was it a matter of him simply not working hard during the off season or during Boston practices to improve in areas of his game that are weak. Because it's easy to make yourself even better in the areas that you're already good in but another thing to see your flaws and focus on improving upon those to the point where they aren't a liability during games. Perhaps, Rivers and company were trying to stress this to Green and he wasn't taking their advice to heart.

If Green were still a player on the Celtics (assuming McHale didn't want him and wanted someone else in that trade) this season. How would Gerald respond to Garnett? I think all the veterans, Paul, Ray, Kevin, James, Eddie and Brian would all contribute in working with him at first. However, I feel as if Kevin would lead the charge to eventually speaking with Ainge in a private meeting to say the team would be better off parting ways with Gerald. I don't know. If Rivers and last season's coaching staff couldn't get through to Green or Green just isn't processing the information and applying it in games at the pace he needs to. Then I think Garnett and other players on this season's team would grow impatient with Green to the point of getting upset. Especially, if they'll feel he isn't carrying his weight.

I don't want to paint Green a certain way because no one really knows what goes on inside of his head and how challenging it was to understand him last season from the coaching staff. You can only go by what's said to the local media and what you read and listen to on the local radio station. Still, you've to imagine that Green is working relentlessly now to impress GMs this summer to catch on with a new team. If not, his agent needs to talk to his client or Green's family and friends need to start making their opinions known to him. Green could still have a future in the NBA but it's up to him. The NBA isn't going to wait on him to decide to turn it on. There has to be a sense of urgency and not think: Oh, I'll just play overseas. No, because I'm sure that European teams and so forth have a similar tolerance of American players. if you couldn't cut it in the US. We're going to be just as tough on you unless they're starving for somewhat talented players. Then it might not matter to franchises overseas of American players. Again, I don't claim to know for fact. I'm just guessing and wondering out loud. I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to say here.

[campybatman]

So, is there interest from other teams in Green or not?

Green's focus this summer should be on improving himself on defense among other priorities. He'll have to catch on to a summer league team moving forward. He has to start over.

But now, less than a month after a second-place finish in another dunk contest, Green is sitting at home in Houston without a contract, his career at a crossroads at age 22. "Frankly, I've been surprised no one has picked him up to give him a look," Rockets general manager Daryl Morey told SI.com. "Before the KG trade, he was playing pretty well. He can shoot well and he was starting to attack the basket more. I think his defense is probably his biggest area to work on." SI.com / March 26

Irvin said at least a half dozen teams have shown interest in Green, an indication that as easily as the business of pro basketball can seemingly crush your dreams, it can just as easily open its doors to you if your legs are spry and your shooting stroke is true. SI.com / March 26

"When Gerald went to Minnesota, they had so many young guys just like him -- 'potential guys' -- that they had to make a decision about the guys they had invested time in," Irvin said. "Minnesota didn't care about Gerald the same way Boston did because they hadn't put two years into him. The Timberwolves had already invested that kind of time into the likes of Rashad McCants." SI.com / March 26

Green hasn't spoken with the media since leaving the Rockets. He has spent the ensuing weeks sorting out how a career that began so brightly has fizzled so quickly. "Look, was he immature in some situations? Of course. He came out of high school; what would anyone expect?" Irvin said. "But he's a good kid. I think [this] has humbled him, and now he realizes he has to fight. But to discount anything he did [in Boston] because he was on bad teams, well, half of the league is filled with bad teams. Are we going to discount everyone's season on a bad team?" SI.com / March 26

[threrf23]

Smith is still a major headcase off the court, and he doesn't exactly get along with Karl, but what I mean by "getting it" is he's realized how hard he has to work. Make no mistake, while he's got issues, he's become a hard worker. With that said, his production levels have been damned good since he ended up in Denver, after having nearly identical numbers to what Gerald put up last year in Boston.

re: JR Smith, all indications were he was a better player last season than GG was. He's also a year older I believe, and GG didn't get as much a chance this season. GG's physique may not be fully developed, too.


In March, if you double JR Smith's minutes played, then per 41 minutes or so he is posting a line of:

53% FG% 49% 3pt% 29.8 ppg 4.0 rpg 4.2 apg 2.4 spg .8 bpg

I have no clue if he "gets it" off the court, but he has the potential to be a lot more than Ricky Davis. If he had decided to be a 4 year college guy, he'd still be in college right now.

Gerald's got talent and is still young, I'm not as down on him as others here are. He's got the shooting ability to become Kyle Korver (used in that role) and the athletic ability to become much more than that.

[eloper]

-= original quote snipped =-



re: JR Smith, all indications were he was a better player last season than GG was. He's also a year older I believe, and GG didn't get as much a chance this season. GG's physique may not be fully developed, too.


In March, if you double JR Smith's minutes played, then per 41 minutes or so he is posting a line of:

53% FG% 49% 3pt% 29.8 ppg 4.0 rpg 4.2 apg 2.4 spg .8 bpg

I have no clue if he "gets it" off the court, but he has the potential to be a lot more than Ricky Davis. If he had decided to be a 4 year college guy, he'd still be in college right now.

Gerald's got talent and is still young, I'm not as down on him as others here are. He's got the shooting ability to become Kyle Korver (used in that role) and the athletic ability to become much more than that.

Yes, Smith was a much better player last year than Gerald was, but I'm talking about the Hornets version of JR Smith. If you compare the Hornets version of Smith and the Celtics version of Gerald, they put up incredibly similar rates across the board. The difference then became that Smith got a wakeup call after being dealt for trash and ended up in a system that really fits his playing style.

I'm not arguing that Gerald is going to turn into the player that Smith is (Smith has played exceptional the past two seasons), but simply that Gerald can turn his career around the same way Smith did. They're very similar players in terms of their tenancies and abilities, and Gerald's now going through a lot of the trials and tribulations that JR went through after leaving New Orleans. Hopefully Gerald has gotten that same wake up call and ends up in a situation similar to the one Smith found.

[GuyClinch]

"When Gerald went to Minnesota, they had so many young guys just like him -- 'potential guys' -- that they had to make a decision about the guys they had invested time in," Irvin said. "Minnesota didn't care about Gerald the same way Boston did because they hadn't put two years into him. The Timberwolves had already invested that kind of time into the likes of Rashad McCants."

That's a great quote. It's really hard for triple A players once they leave their initial team. They have lost the believers..

Pete

[MyInsatiableOne]

Good point. The C's put the time and effort into him because THEY invested a pick and money into him. After he leaves the C's, what does anyone else care?

[GuyClinch]

Good point. The C's put the time and effort into him because THEY invested a pick and money into him. After he leaves the C's, what does anyone else care?

Yup. it's ego on the line before - your organization wants to think they made a "smart" pick. But when the organization finally gives and loses faith it's often a really bad sign for that player.

Alot of guys have boasted about how they would "blow up" when they left and they were mistreated and such. Mosio I remember made such boasts. Kedrick Brown's agent thought he would blow up. Even Papile seemed optomistic..

But once they are gone so is that faith. They have to legitmately compete with other players on the roster - and quite often they are behind other "favorites" that were that pick of that organization. they get a VERY short leash. They get some hype at first but if they don't produce up to expectations and quickly they are gone.. There is no "adjustment" period..

GG's few remaining fans will push this aside but it's really unlikely he makes anything out of his career at this point. It could happen but more often then not these guys end up nowhere.

I would be surprised at even a second contract beyond minimum. he really is the second coming of Kedrick Brown.. The success stories you see with these kind of players (unschooled athletic types) is usually with the undrafted guys/2nd rounders who quietly work their way back up.

I think the fall from grace is pretty rough on these guys egos..

Pete

[threrf23]

It could happen but more often then not these guys end up nowhere.

Actually, even in more recent years, guys skipping from high school to the NBA and still able to be considered a potential lottery pick more often than not become stars, or at least good players, even if their development takes a while. JR Smith was one of those guys who was even able to get some pt his rookie year, and now we are starting to see his real potential. Martell Webster was arguably no better than GG last season, and this season he's been able to contribute to a respectable Trail Blazers team (though I haven't watched much of him and am not sure how well he has played). I wasn't thinking of GG as a good FA pick-up option for us in the offseason, but thinking objectively along these lines, it kinda does make sense to pick him up...

Even look at guys like Blatche and Monta Ellis, guys that dropped below GG and ended up in the 2nd round

"When Gerald went to Minnesota, they had so many young guys just like him -- 'potential guys' -- that they had to make a decision about the guys they had invested time in," Irvin said. "Minnesota didn't care about Gerald the same way Boston did because they hadn't put two years into him. The Timberwolves had already invested that kind of time into the likes of Rashad McCants."

One good point and one reason the age limit may put certain players in a better position to fail. NBA teams have more invested in a draft pick's long-term potential than any college program does especially when that player is likely only in town for a year.

[campybatman]

I remember when the talk prior to the draft was about Green and Martell Webster and why Webster was selected ahead of Green and Green's subsequent slide. I know it was said that Webster posses a NBA ready body.

I continue to think of Green, Webster and Kevin Martin as similar (young) players. All capable of becoming legitimate NBA scorers (or shooters), if not already.

Green can shoot and he can elevate to dunk. What he needs to show the league is what else can he do with regularity that will keep him in the NBA. His agent sounds like he cares for him beyond being his agent and must convey his idea of Green as a person and player to a team that can best nurture and guide Green as he's still a young person. But, at the same time, be a head coach that can motivate as well as get on him to behave independently and aggressively in his development. It's still up to Green to turnaround his career. I won't say salvage because I don't believe he has fallen that hard. Or not in the same way as a Chris Anderson. Green isn't in a situation where he's repairing his image or regaining the trust of others. No, Green just has to show that he can realize that potential before everyone completely gives up on him and he's playing overseas.

[theman]

I would be surprised at even a second contract beyond minimum. he really is the second coming of Kedrick Brown..

Pete

Big difference. Danny was smart enough to trade Green and keep Rondo where Pitino traded Joe Johnson and kept Kedrick Brown.

[GuyClinch]

Technically Kedrick Brown was traded to Cleveland, remember? <g> It was one year later in his contract I believe.

Not that I am equating the GG with Kedrick Brown from a transaction standpoint. Yes Danny for the most part has managed to cut his losses outside of Jiri Welsch.

Pete

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

I would like to see the celtics give gerald green 1 more chance,I just dont want to see him go to the lakers, and to see kobe bryant help green develop into a star.

Superstars can't give people their work ethic. Green's not going to be a hard worker whether Kobe or Scott Pollard is in his ear.

[Jimmy103]

The biggest scam in the NBA last season was Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers hood winking the league into thinking Gerald Green was a valued asset.

He's a stiff...he wouldn't make the 12 man this year or next

[campybatman]

The biggest scam in the NBA last season was Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers hood winking the league into thinking Gerald Green was a valued asset.

You mean to say, Kevin McHale?

Really, a scam is only a scam if there exist a sucker. And it remains unclear whether or not McHale was indeed hoodwinked by Ainge in that trade. Either McHale was so infatuated by the acquisition of Al Jefferson and the return of Minnesota's first round pick which Boston previously owned. Or McHale was helping a friend out of a dire situation in Boston. The national media and fans contend that it's the case of the latter. Who knows for sure but Danny Ainge and Kevin McHale. McHale still has his job...

[GuyClinch]

Why do you think Green was so integral to the trade? He strikes me as a throw in. "Hey Mchale we don't want him but he has potential. We will throw him in as well..." was probably what DA told him.

Pete

[GuyClinch]

I continue to think of Green, Webster and Kevin Martin as similar (young) players. All capable of becoming legitimate NBA scorers (or shooters), if not already.

Nah. Kevin Martin has 'it' - he knows how to play the game. Green is a guy who can do it all in workouts but when he gets on the court he is lost.

It's like this guy I play in tennis. In theory this guy is much better then me - he can hit terrific topspin drives from anywhere on the court - he has a big serve, he can volley well. But when he actually plays his strategy sucks. He has all the skills but just does dumb things at the wrong time. He goes for big second serves when he shouldn't. He lobs when he should pass. He hits the ball right back to me and so on. Green is that kind of guy in basketball.

Green would drive when he should have taken the open J. he would take J's when he had a guy tight up on him. He would rotate to the wrong man and so on. This is chalked up as lack of intelligence. But that's not 100% the case (though green actually is not that bright) - what it really is a lack of quick decision making on the court. You have to instantly recognize the situation and make a good basketball decision for the player you are. You don't actually have time to think things through.

Even guys like Kobe do this - it's just that alot of the time the decision is to score. But there is still this internal decision making process at work. It's in this aspect that Green is so deficent. And coaches evidently just don't want to deal with the prospect of trying to "fix" this.

It's like Lenny Cooke back in the SL. He could score bunches sure - but could he function in a high level NBA offense? The consensus was probably not..

This is why guys like Kobe, Pierce and AI don't get enough credit. Yes they are looking to score as a first option but they don't ignore the other options and they try to score in the most efficent way possible for their game.


Pete

[Joyeuse]

Yes Danny for the most part has managed to cut his losses outside of Jiri Welsch.

Danny did a great job cutting his losses with Jiri Welsch - traded to Cleveland for a first rounder which was traded to Phoenix for Rajon Rondo, who is now our starting point guard and far better than Jiri Welsch ever played.

[threrf23]

Looking at two years worth of on/off court type stats and other indications, Kevin Martin is not a much better defender than GG. And he's three years older. If you look at the basic box score stats that GG put up in 22 mpg in 06-07, they're not that bad at all for a guy two years out of high school. When Kev Martin was that age, he wasn't even in the NBA. And his first season in the NBA, he did abslutely nothing. If I'm not in a win now mode, I'm honestly more inclined to gamble on GG than to sign Kev Martin.