Commitment to Bogut Needed

[raferfenix]

The Bogut fake high fiving is only more evidence of what many of us have been saying on this board since Bogut got here----our team needs to make more of a commitment to developing him!

In only his third season, Bogut has now had a sustained portion of a season where his play has been amongst the very best centers in the league. People need to catch up to how good he has become---even I missed it for a while due to apathy and disgust over the Bucks these days.

However, it's now become apparent that our #1 pick is committed to playing very good defense and unselfish basketball despite being on a team without any other players truly committed to either concept. Generally, he is the opposite of what is wrong with our franchise, and may be the kind of leader we need to change. Even though sometimes his intensity wanes and he doesn't play aggressively (two common problems for young big men), he barely ever misses games despite playing hurt (something no one else on our team does either). I don

[ReasonablySober]

I can't **** believe people took that high-fiving thing as anything other than a joke. Sorry rafer, I couldn't read anything after that first sentence.

[ReasonablySober]

OK, I read it.

Short opinion: I love Bogut and I hope he's around for a while. But you don't commit to a complementary player, even a good one. Bogut isn't good enough to carry an average team to greatness.

Now, next to a superstar he could be invaluable. Like I said a week ago, had the Suns added Bogut instead of Shaq, you'd have to make them odds on favorites in the West.

But until we land the star player, nothing about the Bucks really matters.

With that in mind, if the Bucks did their homework and were certain that either Rose, Beasley, Mayo, etc. were going to be superstars and the only way to nab one of 'em was with Bogut in a trade, they would have to make that deal. I'm not saying I view anyone in this draft to be a superstar down the line, but I'm also not a scout.

[raferfenix]

I can't **** believe people took that high-fiving thing as anything other than a joke. Sorry rafer, I couldn't read anything after that first sentence.

It was a joke that very clearly exposed all that is wrong with our team. We have selfish players who were caught being too lazy to even slap the hand of a teammate after making a free throw.

Bogut has clashed with his teammates a lot this season, but he needs to be the last one standing after we hopefully take a flamethrower to the team and blow it to smithereens this Summer.

[raferfenix]

OK, I read it.

Short opinion: I love Bogut and I hope he's around for a while. But you don't commit to a complementary player, even a good one. Bogut isn't good enough to carry an average team to greatness.

Now, next to a superstar he could be invaluable. Like I said a week ago, had the Suns added Bogut instead of Shaq, you'd have to make them odds on favorites in the West.

But until we land the star player, nothing about the Bucks really matters.

With that in mind, if the Bucks did their homework and were certain that either Rose, Beasley, Mayo, etc. were going to be superstars and the only way to nab one of 'em was with Bogut in a trade, they would have to make that deal. I'm not saying I view anyone in this draft to be a superstar down the line, but I'm also not a scout.

I agree our team is in need of a superstar, but we aren't really close to getting one right now. How many players in the league are good enough to make it worth trading the only hard worker on the team for?

I think the biggest problem we have is that we have a lazy and selfish team attitude, and I think making a long term commitment to Bogut would help engrain the kind of attitude winning teams have---the kind of attitude that would make a great player willing to play here.

[ReasonablySober]

-= original quote snipped =-



It was a joke that very clearly exposed all that is wrong with our team. We have selfish players who were caught being too lazy to even slap the hand of a teammate after making a free throw.

Bogut has clashed with his teammates a lot this season, but he needs to be the last one standing after we hopefully take a flamethrower to the team and blow it to smithereens this Summer.

Or they were looking at the sidelines or talking with one another or were simply zoned in on something else. Jesus christ, are you kidding me?

[Redbeardwirc0830]

cheers

[EastSideBucksFan]

I'm with rafer on this one.


This is a pivotal offseason that will determine where this franchise is headed and who will remain here when contract decisions will be made.


This offseason we need to really commit to Bogut.


DB I completely disagree that Bogut is just a complementary player. He has been that because he's been a rookie and young and in a guard oriented offense and thats his only role here right now.

We need to truly change some culture here and I think it starts with trading one of Mo or Redd and it will probably be Mo I think.

IF we don't change the backcourt we need a coach who can come in here, demand the respect of the players and implement an offense where we play smart basketball. By running through your big man.


Jonny Mac harped on this the other night after Bogut had like 17 points in the first half of the Hawks game and then took 5 shots in the second half.

You can't ignore a player who has proven all year to be able to significantly exploit a matchup like Bogut has proven he can do.

Get a real point guard and Bogut will flourish.

[jerrod]

-= original quote snipped =-



Or they were looking at the sidelines or talking with one another or were simply zoned in on something else. Jesus christ, are you kidding me?

if they heard bogut sneeze they'd demand that the bucks kill all the flowers in milwaukee so they wouldn't mess with his allergies


anyways, what kind of commitment do you want? there's no point in offering him a big deal now, that would just be dumb. offer him a decent deal now or tell him to go out and earn a bigger one

[europa]

I agree Bogut is proving to be more than a complementary piece. He's probably never going to be a superstar but what he's done since the start of the new year in my opinion is show that he can be a strong No. 2 player on a good team. He has shown he can be an impact player on both ends of the court. Combine that with his unselfish approach to the game and generally high Basketball IQ and he's a whole lot more than a complementary part of a good team in my opinion.

If he can put up 15-16/10-3 on this selfish, guard-oriented chucking team I sure as hell would like to see what he could do on a team that actually worked to involve him more consistently and had one shread of knowledge about what real team basketball is all about.

[ReasonablySober]

-= original quote snipped =-



I agree our team is in need of a superstar, but we aren't really close to getting one right now. How many players in the league are good enough to make it worth trading the only hard worker on the team for?

I think the biggest problem we have is that we have a lazy and selfish team attitude, and I think making a long term commitment to Bogut would help engrain the kind of attitude winning teams have---the kind of attitude that would make a great player willing to play here.

I love the hard-working, team oriented, unselfish guys. But I'm not winning a title with:

Devin Harris
Bruce Bowen
Shane Battier
David Lee
Andrew Bogut

The quote, "The world loves talent but pays off on character" doesn't exactly apply in the NBA. Give me the super-talented guy and I'll find a second banana and role players to surround him with.

[El Duderino]

-= original quote snipped =-



Or they were looking at the sidelines or talking with one another or were simply zoned in on something else. Jesus christ, are you kidding me?

It was funny, but it is true that people are reading way to much into it. Many of the players are just going through the motions hoping the season ends ASAP so they can get on vacation sipping drinks on a warm beach somewhere.

[raferfenix]

The commitment I'm talking about isn't just financial---I want our team to hire a coach who can help Bogut develop, and trade away the players preventing Bogut from flourishing.

Bogut is pretyt much the only good thing going for this franchise right now, and even though we might still need a superstar if we're ever going to win a championship, we will need the exact kind of attitude Bogut brings to the team to do that as well.

I'm not too worried about the financial aspects of this, as Bogut has made an effort to emphasize his humbleness, to the extent that he pissed a lot of players in the league off with his comments on the bling culture. I doubt he asks for anything too extreme---if it were really about the money, he'd demand he'd leave Milwaukee so he can be somewhere other than a media black hole.

[jerrod]

wasn't lk hired because he'd help bogut and make him a bigger part of the team?

[ReasonablySober]

I agree Bogut is proving to be more than a complementary piece. He's probably never going to be a superstar but what he's done since the start of the new year in my opinion is show that he can be a strong No. 2 player on a good team. He has shown he can be an impact player on both ends of the court. Combine that with his unselfish approach to the game and generally high Basketball IQ and he's a whole lot more than a complementary part of a good team in my opinion.

If he can put up 15-16/10-3 on this selfish, guard-oriented chucking team I sure as hell would like to see what he could do on a team that actually worked to involve him more consistently and had one shread of knowledge about what real team basketball is all about.

If he's not going to be a superstar (something needed to win a title in the NBA) then doesn't he have to be defined as complementary, almost by default?

Josh Howard's an All-Star caliber player. So is Caron Butler. So was Michael Redd. But doesn't everyone assume they would best be utilized as a 2nd banana to a true star caliber player?

That's Bogut.

[jerrod]

That's HOPEFULLY WHAT Bogut BECOMES.

there you go

[europa]

-= original quote snipped =-



If he's not going to be a superstar (something needed to win a title in the NBA) then doesn't he have to be defined as complementary, almost by default?

Josh Howard's an All-Star caliber player. So is Caron Butler. So was Michael Redd. But doesn't everyone assume they would best be utilized as a 2nd banana to a true star caliber player?

That's Bogut.

Perhaps it's just a case of semantics then for it seems we are in agreement that Bogut can be a strong No. 2 player on a contending team. I think Bogut's at that level right now and the good news in my opinion is there's every reason to believe he can get better.

[showtimesam]

Rafernix is right, end of story.

Bogut should be the last man standing from this roster. You can win with guys like Bogut. Look at the Pistons.
Obviously the Bucks will need more good players but that can definitely happen with some smart trading and drafting in the next couple years.

[MickeyDavis]

I agree Bogut is proving to be more than a complementary piece. He's probably never going to be a superstar but what he's done since the start of the new year in my opinion is show that he can be a strong No. 2 player on a good team. He has shown he can be an impact player on both ends of the court. Combine that with his unselfish approach to the game and generally high Basketball IQ and he's a whole lot more than a complementary part of a good team in my opinion.

If he can put up 15-16/10-3 on this selfish, guard-oriented chucking team I sure as hell would like to see what he could do on a team that actually worked to involve him more consistently and had one shread of knowledge about what real team basketball is all about.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

In only his third season, Bogut has now had a sustained portion of a season where his play has been amongst the very best centers in the league. People need to catch up to how good he has become---even I missed it for a while due to apathy and disgust over the Bucks these days.

Bogut is only one of the very best centers if you decide that all of the more skilled players are PF's. It sometimes seems that among NBA bigs we call all the talented guys PF's and all the stiffs C's. Their size and approach to playing basketball isn't really all that different.

Duncan, Garnett, Amare, Gasol, Nowitzki, Brand, Jefferson, Bosh are all better players than Bogut. Sure for Dirk you can easily say that he plays a different position, but I don't really understand how Duncan plays a different position. How does Jefferson play a different position than Bogut? What does he do different on the court?

Plus you have Howard, Bynum, Yao, and potentially Oden who are unquestionably centers, and more productive than Bogut. The gulf between Duncan/Howard and Bogut is enormous, so for me it doesn't work to use terminology like "among the very best." Just seems misleading. One of the benefits of having so many words in our language is that we should be able to find more accurate ways to label things.

He may never become a superstar, but Bogut is the exact kind of player that seems to end up on championship teams.

I agree that Bogut is the kind of unselfish guy who could be a contributer on a championship team, but he certainly isn't the MJ/Bird/Shaq or even Kobe/Pippen/McHale of a championship team. How much should we commit to and pay option C? What kind of key role should we assign to somebody who is option C on a championship team?

I like Bogut, and he's our best or at least most valuable player. I just don't want us to make exactly the same mistake we made with Redd, pretending that because we could move all the best wing players to SF, we could consider Redd one of the best SG's and justify paying him huge money.