HALL OF FAME???

[TEAIM]

I was just looking at the numbers of past NBA players. And it stood out to me that Bernard King and Adrian Dantley aren't in the Hall of Fame.

Both have amazing stats.

I know Dantley still might get in but I doubt Bernard King will, which seems unfair.

I really haven't seen these guys play other than highlights. Maybe some of the older posters could explain why these guy's haven't got in the hall yet?

[carrottop12]

Dantley is on a lot of people's non-favorite list.

I compare his stats to that of Carmelo Anthony right now.

If he were to retire would he be a hall of famer right now? Thats the same way people view Dantley. He's is a great scorer, but something just doesn't scream hall of fame about him.

[bluestang302]

Dantley is percieved as a selfish player who isn't as good as his numbers indicate. Was an extremely effective and efficient scorer, but didn't always have team success. His isolation game also often hindered the offenses of the team's he played on. He could score on anyone at anytime, but often the ball stopped with him and his teammates weren't as effective. He also had the reputation as moody, and hard to deal with. But I've also heard he was a hard-worker, and legendary for his training and eating regiments.

Bottom line is, he wasn't as great a player as the numbers indicate. 30 points, 6 boards, and 4 assists on 57 FG%? That's insane. But his rather meager (relative to the numbers) all-star and all-nba placements reflect what his true value was. I think he should be in the hall of fame.

Bernard King is a case of injuries. And alcoholism. He had drugs/alcohol problems early in his career. Then his famous knee injury in 1985 took him down when he was at his absolute peak. To his credit, he came back to make an all-star game when many people thought he was finished. Overall, if you look at the number of games and minutes, King had a pretty long career. 950 games or so and over 19000 points off the top of my head. By anyone's standards, that is a long and productive career. But his was truncated and subdivided by the issues I outlined above, which takes away some of the effect. He also was at his peak, really, for only 1.5 years. The 83/84 season, the playoffs, and 55 games of the 84/85 season. During that stretch of time he was a top 5 player in the game, and an absolutely deadly scorer.

I think King should also be in the hall of fame. Alex English is in. While English was extremely consistant, I think Dantley and King were just as good.

[basketball royalty]

What about CWebb? He was always a great player but I didn't think his career numbers would look that good with all the injuries. However, 20pts 9rebs and 4asts over 15 years are great numbers. Add to that the fact that he had a very successfull collegiate career, even with the TO blunder.

[sarah42]

i liked cwebb on tnt. had a sense of humour.

gave props to paul pierce of all ppl for mvp.

he had some good insights and made sure to tell charles just how "loved" charles was in Oakland. lol.

i think Webb was an all star only 5 times. things like that might stop him from getting in, but i heard he's getting paid close to 20 mill this year by Philly! is that true?

like he cares if he gets in. 20 million for not playing? lucky son of a...

[TheSheriff]

If you look at the Hall of fame probability, JoJo White is the biggest snub, so far. Chris Webber has a very marginal case.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

[5DOM]

i summon writermannnnnnnnnnnn

[Muzzleshot]

AD was a very moody person and not well liked which I'm sure didn't help him among the people voting for the HOF.

He had many problems with Frank Layden when he played in Utah. Layden at one point fined him 30 dimes. 30 dimes being a biblical reference to Judas receiving 30 pieces of silver for turning in Jesus. Yikes.

[writerman]

from the HOF:

ARTIS GILMORE

Think a siginificantly stronger Dikembe Motombo with a nice offensive game. He may well have been the strongest man to ever play the game not named Wilt or Shaq.

IMO he's a top 5-6 center of all time, better overall than Olajowon who, though good, gets more love here than he actually rates.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/gilmore_summary.html

[cdubbz]

isiah rider

[BigHands]

I think all the following should be in the HOF

Spencer Haywood
Sidney Moncrief
George McGinnis
Dennis Johnson
Jojo White

[kooldude]

from the HOF:

ARTIS GILMORE

Think a siginificantly stronger Dikembe Motombo with a nice offensive game. He may well have been the strongest man to ever play the game not named Wilt or Shaq.

IMO he's a top 5-6 center of all time, better overall than Olajowon who, though good, gets more love here than he actually rates.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/gilmore_summary.html

which part(s) of Glimore's game is better than Hakeem's?

[bleu]

Dantley had amazing stats and he really was a really talented player, but not many people liked him.

[Turisas]

I think all the following should be in the HOF

Spencer Haywood
Sidney Moncrief
George McGinnis
Dennis Johnson
Jojo White

+1

[NO-KG-AI]

from the HOF:

ARTIS GILMORE

Think a siginificantly stronger Dikembe Motombo with a nice offensive game. He may well have been the strongest man to ever play the game not named Wilt or Shaq.

IMO he's a top 5-6 center of all time, better overall than Olajowon who, though good, gets more love here than he actually rates.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/gilmore_summary.html

I don't have him above Hakeem, but Artis needs to be in, above Dantley, King, and English IMO.

[penbeast0]

-= original quote snipped =-
which part(s) of Glimore's game is better than Hakeem's?

Two parts basically. First, Gilmore was a much more efficient scorer. The "dream shake" was a really cool fun move, but it's like a 360 dunk rather than a straight layup, the degree of difficulty that makes it fabulous also makes it more likely to miss. Gilmore was just so strong it was like defending Shaq, he would back even the biggest guys down and just turn on them; thus he is one of, if not the, most efficient scorers to ever play.

Secondly, Gilmore was probably a better rebounder. Even adjusting for pace and ABA competition (and there are rubrics out there that do a reasonably good job for both), he was a bit better than Hakeem. Not a lot better though, and there is definitely room for argument.

While Artis was stronger, Hakeem was quicker and gets the nod by a little on shotblocking and passing (both were great shotblockers and good post passers, Hakeem was better). Hakeem also had the rare ability to get steals giving him the edge in help defense. Quickness is also a bit more versatile than strength defensively. Hakeem can front and harass a power player like Shaq while Artis had a tough time coming out and chasing a player like Bob McAdoo. So the defensive edge belongs to Hakeem.

One more thing. Artis did win his championship in the ABA but only one. He never played on a serious championship contender in the NBA; Hakeem not only played on one but is one of those players who elevated his game in playoff competition.

I am completely on board with Artis belonging in the HOF and the only reason he wasn't in many years ago has to be lingering resentment and blackballing from his being an ABA star (players whose best years were in the ABA have never gotten even consideration from the HOF except Dr. J). However, Hakeem is one of the top 5-10 players in NBA history, Artis is on a level below that more akin to Patrick Ewing.