Minnesota vs Milwaukee vs Seattle vs Memphis

[AussieBuck]

I put Minnesota last. I'd take Bogut over Al Jefferson all day long. I'm the resident Al Jefferson doubter. I see him as the Michael Redd of PF/C's.

Is that because of how bad his team is or something actually in his game? If it is because of his team sucking then I'd say you are being a bit harsh as he is the only NBA starter on that team.

[paulpressey25]

-= To be honest, I don't even know what you're trying to say.

Talent rises above bad coaching and bad chemistry......

We've haven't risen above bad coaching and bad chemistry.....hence we have no talent.

[REDDzone]

I put Minnesota last. I'd take Bogut over Al Jefferson all day long. I'm the resident Al Jefferson doubter. I see him as the Michael Redd of PF/C's.

PP, PP, PP.

The man scores a ton, does it efficiently, and rebounds a ton.

He plays decent defense when he isn't playing out of position.

It would be different if he was a Randolph type and was very inefficient/selfish.

Jefferson has one of the best post-games in the league IMO.

[paulpressey25]

-=
The man scores a ton, does it efficiently, and rebounds a ton..

I understand that he's got a big fan club......

I just believe that a 20-12 PF/C shouldn't have his team vying for the top lotto pick for the second straight season.....especially since last year he had Paul Pierce with him.

[ReasonablySober]

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I understand that he's got a big fan club......

I just believe that a 20-12 PF/C shouldn't have his team vying for the top lotto pick for the second straight season.....especially since last year he had Paul Pierce with him.

He had Paul Pierce and a lot of crap. This season he doesn't even have Pierce.

[REDDzone]

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I understand that he's got a big fan club......

I just believe that a 20-12 PF/C shouldn't have his team vying for the top lotto pick for the second straight season.....especially since last year he had Paul Pierce with him.

I'm fine with this logic, but if you want to use this argument, how can you choose Bogut over him so readily?

Two career losers if we look at them without context. May as well take the younger(?) one putting up much better numbers.

[paulpressey25]

-= I'm fine with this logic, but if you want to use this argument, how can you choose Bogut over him so readily?.

I guess I'd prefer Bogut for these reasons:

a) Bogut is getting better and better each month. Is his ceiling fast approaching? Could be, but I think Bogut can get better. And Bogut this year is a far superior player to Bogut last year. He's not a 20/12 guy yet. Jefferson is ahead of him by a year or two in experience.

b) The great thing about Bogut this year is he turned into a center who can anchor a defense. He's still done some dissapearing acts, but he also now can push Yao around and block shots on help defense. That is a very valuable player.

I just think starting next season, 9 out of 10 teams in the league take Bogut given how strong Bogut is finishing.

[REDDzone]

I agree about Bogut's defense, if anything I'd want Jefferson next to Bogut, not instead of him.

But it seems as if Jefferson is almost being punished by your logic for consistently being good this season, if he had started out the season crappy, and improved to 20/12, would you then have chose him?

I just think Jefferson has the potential to someday have the best post game in the league, and even be a top 5 rebounder.

[paulpressey25]

But it seems as if Jefferson is almost being punished by your logic for consistently being good this season, if he had started out the season crappy, and improved to 20/12, would you then have chose him?.

I guess I'm saying that Jefferson the last two years has put up much better stats than Bogut, but it hasn't shown into the record.

I can't envision Bogut averaging 20/12 next year and the Bucks gunning for 20 wins like Minnesota. I just believe a 20/12 from Bogut goes more to a winning team than a 20/12 from Jefferson.

And I guess by extension that an 17/10 Bogut >> a 20/12 Al Jefferson if you buy what I'm selling.

I'll shift it to a PG comparison. Andre Miller and Mo Williams have throughout the course of the year averaged approximately 16ppg/6.5apg. Yet I'll take Miller all day long because I see a different style game that is more conducive to a team winning.

[ReasonablySober]

-= original quote snipped =-



I guess I'm saying that Jefferson the last two years has put up much better stats than Bogut, but it hasn't shown into the record.

I can't envision Bogut averaging 20/12 next year and the Bucks gunning for 20 wins like Minnesota. I just believe a 20/12 from Bogut goes more to a winning team than a 20/12 from Jefferson.

And I guess by extension that an 17/10 Bogut >> a 20/12 Al Jefferson if you buy what I'm selling.

I'll shift it to a PG comparison. Andre Miller and Mo Williams have throughout the course of the year averaged approximately 16ppg/6.5apg. Yet I'll take Miller all day long because I see a different style game that is more conducive to a team winning.

Well, this season the Bucks are 4-7 when Bogut has a 20/10 game and are 5-8 when he's within either 1 point or 1 rebound of a 20/10 game.

[paulpressey25]

-= Well, this season the Bucks are 4-7 when Bogut has a 20/10 game and are 5-8 when he's within either 1 point or 1 rebound of a 20/10 game.

Too small a sample size.......give Bogut a full year where he's doing that (or even averaging 18/11 which I think he'll do next year). But even those stat comparisons don't take into account the defense, where Bogut has come into his own this year.

I know I won't convince you guys. We'll see how it plays the next 2-3 years. I just see Jefferson's 20/12 as having more in common with Zach Randolph from his ability to impact winning a game than say a Chris Bosh 20/12.

[ReasonablySober]

I'm not the biggest Jefferson fan but you have to account for the people around him. If he's on Portland they're in the playoffs and all of the sudden he's an All-Star.

[heynow]

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I had a hard time following you here...you contradict yourself every other sentence.

Talented teams, no matter how much tension there is, are simply not this pathetic.

[blkout]

Current talent on roster individually:

Milwaukee
Memphis
Seattle
Minnesota

Potential talent on roster individually now:

Seattle
Memphis
Milwaukee
Minnesota

Potential talent on roster individually after draft:

Seattle
Minnesota
Memphis
Milwaukee

Franchise stability:

Memphis
Minnesota
Milwaukee
Seattle

Milwaukee are looking for a GM and probably a coach, but the entire Seattle team is moving soon which seems fairly unstable to me.

Potential to make moves required to improve roster:

Milwaukee
Memphis
Seattle
Minnesota

I think the Bucks have more tradeable pieces and a valuable pick but one that probably wont be #1 or #2, thus making it tradeable... however...

Likeliness of teams making moves required to improve roster:

Seattle
Memphis
Minnesota
Milwaukee

The Bucks could have 5 first round picks and the most tradeable contracts in the league and they'd still do nothing. Herb and his buddies are a joke.

This is how I see it anyway... they all have positives and negatives, I would say overall I think Memphis is in the best situation... they'll have alot of cap space soon enough, they've got a fair few picks and I think Gay could really turn into something special, probably sooner than Durant will. Plus Jerry West is still hanging around apparently.

[ReasonablySober]

-= original quote snipped =-



Talented teams, no matter how much tension there is, are simply not this pathetic.

Understood.

But I said this team has the most talent of the four rosters listed. Is that not possible?