Lock up Powe long term before the playoffs or pay the price.

TheCelticTruth · Post #21 » by **TheCelticTruth** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:50 pm

two other things about leon, he is a ridiculously hard worker/overachiever type, and people forget he was a lottery prospect before his injuries. had he never gotten hurt in the first place (even before cal) he might never have gone to college

Post #22 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:17 pm

Its hard to comment on this until we see what the FO does next year. IMO Brown, Casell, Posey, and Pollard should be let go in the offseason, but I'm afraid we might give them loyalty type contracts. House I'm on the fence about keeping. I'm on record that we should ditch Ray Allen next year. Whether we do or don't do things like that will decide what we do with some of our younger guys.

TheCelticTruth · Post #23 » by **TheCelticTruth** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:18 pm

im sure "ditch" is not the right word for what you mean about ray. id like to know why you feel that way, and which all star player you assume we can replace him with.

Post #24 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:34 pm

To me the signs of RAy decline are unmistakable. He is worse than he used to be off the bounce now and probably converts scoring opportunities 3/10 times when he drives the ball to rim and has to pull up way more than he did even last year. He is attempting fewer FT than he has in his career despite playing the most games he has in a while. The question is is his usage down because of the new team or b/c he is slowing down. Likely a combination of both but I suspect it is more the latter b/c KG, Perk and rondo don't really use up that many possessions. I just feel by next year he will be an avg player but still a very good trading chip. In a cutthroat world you trade the guy at his peak stock.

TheCelticTruth · Post #25 » by **TheCelticTruth** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:53 pm

i think ray is past peak stock already, thats why we got him for what we did. im not sure hes going to regress enough that he will be a player who isnt valuable for us.

he is still an all star, and will always be a fantastic player, i feel like what might be best is riding out his contract, getting the cap space and signing him for a deal commensurate with his ability so he can play out his career at home here in NE. but thanks for explaining, i understand your reasoning.

Post #26 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:01 pm

^ That could be true too, its only a guess on my part that the offseason will be the right time to release him. There are definitely guys with similar profiles with long careers, but most of them from what I can tell have much better injury histories than Ray, which is partially why I want to trade him.

The other thig I forgot to mention was that he has apparently been struggling on Back to backs another concerning sign in my book.

celticfan42487 · Post #27 » by **celticfan42487** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:38 pm

Well you can't just ditch Ray Allen. Not many players at his salary level that franchises are willing to trade for.

I agree that he seems a step slow this year, and seems to preform his best after two days rest. I'm in favor of just letting his contract run out because I don't think he has more then 2/3 years left in him of great value.

As for Powe.. Millsap,Craig Smith all very good replacements. If Powe is starting on a team I'd doubt he'd be an advantage at the PF on most nights.. And the draft will usually have one of these flawed players like Powe or Baby drop in the lower 20s. 4 year senior, either too small/too fat/ or injury prone but has some polished abilities [defense,rebound,finishing around the basket.. some combo]

TheCelticTruth · Post #28 » by **TheCelticTruth** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:41 pm

i think powe and baby are both better than what you usually have avilable there. millsap is a gret rebounder but doesnt have the other skills those guys have, ive watched a lot of craig smith and he is not an equivalent player

Post #29 » by **sully00** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:26 am

If Ray Allen is in decline then what is up with Rip Hamilton, you people need to get a grip.

As for Powe, he is not a concern for Boston for two seasons. He is under contract next year and the next a restricted FA much like Varejao this season, he will have ridiculously low QO and the C's will have his bird rights. So Leon is likely here for at least the next two seasons on the cheap or longer on a team friendly contract.

Of the veteran guys this team has the only one that is must to have back is Posey, the other guys can likey be upgraded in the offseason.

TheCelticTruth · Post #30 » by **TheCelticTruth** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:58 am

i think powe is a hometown discount type of guy anyway (but great point that were not close to worrying about it sully). he is so loyal, i guarantee he is grateful to boston for giving him his shot. he wont need to take a discount, but probably would.

GreenGrizz · Post #31 » by **GreenGrizz** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:27 am

Leon Powe = David West

GuyClinch · Post #32 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:59 pm

Powe is on track to being one of Danny's best picks - period. I think better then anyone save Jefferson and Rondo. The surprise really is the return of his athleticism. Had he still had that before the draft I think he would have gone much higher.

That being said Danny should try to be strategic in how he resigns him. Signing him early is one option but it's hardly the only one.

Pete

Post #33 » by **sully00** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:24 pm

The key to that is him developing into a guy who can play some mins at SF like a reverse Posey. That is simply going to be the difference between talent and skill.

Leon's package isn't that rare. Undersized anythings are not rare in the NBA talent pool. The Celtics have drafted 3 undersized PF's in the last 3 years in the second round. While they were all likely closer to 1st round talents than were they were taken in the second round, there were also other guys who are simliar talents in Maxiel, Landry, and Craig Smith.

The key for these players as with a 6'3" SG or 6'5" SF is to find a way to go from being a 15 mpg player to a 30. One way is to overcome the size disadvantage, the other is to learn to play smaller. The great undersized players tend to do this, Barkley comes to mind. He was a great PF but he become an MVP when he was able to add a perimeter offensive game.

I think that overall Davis and Powe really compliment each other role wise if not always on the floor together. Davis is really an undersized 5 and if Powe can add that big SF game then they would be able to combine for back up mins at all 3 front court spots.

There is were Ainge could really make his mark. If he was able to lock those two guys up with Tony Allen and Perk to contracts similiar to what Posey costs then he will be in a position to go into FA to replace Ray Allen with a young max salary guy and try and squeeze another 3 year window out of Pierce and KG. But he will have to be kind of cold about because he can't overpay any of these guys for it to work.

Celts17Pride · Post #34 » by **Celts17Pride** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:32 pm

sully00 wrote:I think that overall Davis and Powe really compliment each other role wise if not always on the floor together. Davis is really an undersized 5 and if Powe can add that big SF game then they would be able to combine for back up mins at all 3 front court spots.

There is were Ainge could really make his mark. If he was able to lock those two guys up with Tony Allen and Perk to contracts similiar to what Posey costs then he will be in a position to go into FA to replace Ray Allen with a young max salary guy and try and squeeze another 3 year window out of Pierce and KG. But he will have to be kind of cold about because he can't overpay any of these guys for it to work.

I think Tony Allen is gone after this season. Powe stays and everyone's binky Big Baby Davis gets packaged with the Celtics draft pick to move higher up in the draft or get a more seasoned vet. Either Powe or Davis will get moved, I'm guessing Davis.

Just my thoughts.

Post #35 » by **sully00** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:05 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I think Tony Allen is gone after this season. Powe stays and everyone's binky Big Baby Davis gets packaged with the Celtics draft pick to move higher up in the draft or get a more seasoned vet. Either Powe or Davis will get moved, I'm guessing Davis.

Just my thoughts.

Why? For who for what? Tony Allen gives you everything out of the SG that Ray Allen doesn't. The beauty of Powe and Davis is that they are giving this team veteran caliber play for minimum money. Tony might be gone just because of money they won't go much passed 3 mil for him but there is no chance they are going to trade Powe or Davis for something more expensive their cap situation is worse next year than it is this year. The only way he is moving one of those guys is if Scal is going with them.

Celts17Pride · Post #36 » by **Celts17Pride** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:18 pm

I don't think the Celtics will give Tony Allen more than a 1 yr/$2.5 mill deal. I see them offering TA a deal like Eddie House. TA has not proved anything that would deserve tying him up for 3-4 years.

Big Baby and Powe compete for minutes at the same position. Powe is in the middle of a 3yr deal that makes him a restricted free agent at the completion. Big Baby has a 2yr deal that I believe makes him an unrestricted free agent at the end of next season. The Celtics will need to either sign him or trade him. I believe they will end up trading him with their draft pick.

I could be wrong of course but that is what I see happening. The Celtics are not going to tie up people for 3-4 years unless they are certain it is worth doing it. I just don't see it for TA or Big Baby.

Just my opinion.

armageddon · Post #37 » by **armageddon** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:42 pm

Powe is becoming the C's 6th man and will be a valuable 6th man on any quality team. Could he start, I don't know.

I'm not sure if RFA status applies to second round picks when their contracts expire, but I'd certainly like to see him locked up long term. We got lucky (smart) drafting him, we need to take full advantage of it.

Celts17Pride · Post #38 » by **Celts17Pride** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:30 pm

armageddon wrote:I'm not sure if RFA status applies to second round picks when their contracts expire, but I'd certainly like to see him locked up long term. We got lucky (smart) drafting him, we need to take full advantage of it.

I think restricted free agent applies to Powe because they signed him to 3 years. I believe it doesn't apply to Big Baby because he signed for 2 years and will become an unretricted free agent at the end of his contract.

I am not an expert and I could be wrong but I think this is correct.

Collinto · Post #39 » by **Collinto** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:06 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I think restricted free agent applies to Powe because they signed him to 3 years. I believe it doesn't apply to Big Baby because he signed for 2 years and will become an unretricted free agent at the end of his contract.

I am not an expert and I could be wrong but I think this is correct.

I would like some clarification on this as well. It was my understanding that if the 2nd round pick signed a three deal, then bird rights and unrestricted status apply. So, if the C's pick up the third year option on Powe then they have the restricted status AND can sign him without using the MLE. With Big Baby, they only signed him to a two year deal (unless there is an option I am missing) and therefore, he would have the restricted status, but would have to use their MLE to sign him...do I have that right?

cloverleaf · Post #40 » by **cloverleaf** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:18 pm

It would be interesting and somehow satisfying if by taking the longer, guaranteed deal at the start Powe is now in the better position to be a major component of a top team into the future.

Doc waxed eloquent last week on what a joy it is to coach Powe, and how you'd think he was from an upper-middle-class rather than hardscrabble background, given how he always came prepared to do his best without bringing baggage from his upbringing onto the court. (Doc was used Grant Hill as the example of a player he was like in that way--though Hill really did have the advantageous upbringing.)