Arroyo starting, Nelson finishing games

[aleZ]

Who's with me on this: Arroyo plays better when he starts, while Nelson is more clutch and an overall better finisher. Carlos' Bball IQ is just waaaay lower and he can make huge mistakes at the end of games (like giving the ball to dwight, a terrible FT shooter).

Given the PG rotation is mediocre anyway, the magic should try to maximise what they got, in my opinion.

(yes I know the Bucs are crap, but it's not the first time he's played well when starting, this season)

[MagicNolesFSU]

no

[drsd]

The Magic's best players, based on Roland (and in order):

Howard
Turkoglu
Lewis
Nelson
Dooling
Arroyo
Bogans
Evans
Others

... in other words, by statistics, Arroyo is only the third best PG on this team.

(as an aside, maybe the wrong SG is starting based on these stats; but I'm not a Bogans fan, so .....)

[magicman123]

maybe otis will read this board and see all the debate about who should start, nelson, then arroyo, and then dooling...and then maybe he finds a way to get an upgrade..

[DiplomaticMagic]

Jameer should be the starter. No question about it.

[Shishnizzle]

Yes, I am converted. I think Carlos is playing better than Nelson, and I think he is playing well. I would be surprised if Nelson get's his spot back this time. With the way SVG is, Carlos will keep the spot unless Carlos play's himself out of it. Which is possable with Carlos

[D12Howard]

Carlos sucks. Havent we learned this yet? He just played his last March as a Magic man. No way he is back next year. I would like to see us make an attempt for TJ Ford this summer, and if that doesnt work out, Duhon would make a good backup. In the meantime, I like what Dooling brings as a backup PG when Jameer is right and healthy.

Carlos is garbage.

He will be lucky to play for the Knicks for the minimum next year.

Arroyo is a good cheerleader though.

And Carlos, pull your socks down.

[macdalejax]

Lol...I can't believe this is being rehashed again. I will concede that Carlos did play very well the other night though.

[Sharper]

The Magic's best players, based on Roland (and in order):

Howard
Turkoglu
Lewis
Nelson
Dooling
Arroyo
Bogans
Evans
Others

... in other words, by statistics, Arroyo is only the third best PG on this team.

Hi!

I still follow the board and every game thread, but I'm only reading these days. So I hate to interrupt my self-imposed forum-posting diet, but since nobody is replying to your post, I'll do it:

Although I agree with those numbers in showing Carlos as only the third best PG on this team (because that's what he is), I think you misunderstood aleZ's point:

Who's with me on this: Arroyo plays better when he starts

And Roland numbers don't show us Arroyo's starter stats, but his overall numbers as: starter, 1st backup PG and 2nd backup PG. I'm pretty sure his starter stats (starter numbers alone, aleZ's whole point after all) would put him up there behind Howard, Hedo and Lewis.

That said, Carlos = Crap, Bucks SUCK and I dislike aleZ's idea.


... back to reading-only again.

[MagicStarwipe]

Hell no. If you look at the stats it looked like he played a good game. But actually watching it, you could see he was just the same old Carlos. Garbage.

[SOUL]

I can be a Carlos hater but he wasn't bad.. I didn't really notice him doing much last game (whether thats good or bad.. I don't know) but he is pretty good starting.. but yeah I still don't trust him in crunch time, just brainfarts too much.

[magik9113]

diener starter, carlos halftime show, jameer finisher.

but I'd keep Jameer starting. It'll take a lot to sell me Carlos and starting.

[magik9113]

I can be a Carlos hater but he wasn't bad.. I didn't really notice him doing much last game (whether thats good or bad.. I don't know) but he is pretty good starting.. but yeah I still don't trust him in crunch time, just brainfarts too much.

well me neither, but that's why Jameer would be the finisher

[magicmamma]

Jameer is the finisher as well as the starter. Unless the win is assured, Jameer is in at the end of the game.

Any decent bench player will play better as a starter. He has better teammates.

[MoGrAdY]

Do we rlly have to do this every time Jameer gets hurt or has a bad game? When Keyon an Jameer are healthy Arroyo cant even get minutes, but he should be starting?

[lovehoops01]

Carlos doesn't suck, but he is one of those guys who seems to need to play a lot of minutes for him to best show what he can do. The question is whether a team wants to reward someone for only being able to play well when he starts and plays a lot of minutes at the expense of someone who maybe is doing more things that the team wants him to do overall -- and whether playing that person a lot is what benefits the team most.

If you read the stories coming out of Toronto, that's what they are saying about T.J. Ford, too, and why the Raptors might look to move him this summer. Plus, they're saying he's pouting when he doesn't start and that's why he doesn't play well coming off the bench. (I'm not saying that last part is the case with Carlos; I'm just clarifying the Ford situation.)

Plus, I'm pretty sure from looking at the sometimes quizzical looks on the faces of Hedo and Dwight in a few games and the reaction of Van Gundy on the bench that there have been at least a few times this season when Carlos has ignored a called play and run something else, creating some confusion. I don't hate him like a lot of people do. He does take care of the ball well (except on some crazy plays in crunch time) and doesn't usually create a lot of problems. But sometimes there's not a lot happening on the court either, and I never really understand why that happens.

It will be interesting to see how the point guard situation shakes out this summer. The Magic might have to end up replacing both guys who are free agents this season, though I hope at least one of them will be back.
.

[aleZ]

I'm pretty sure from looking at the sometimes quizzical looks on the faces of Hedo and Dwight in a few games and the reaction of Van Gundy on the bench that there have been at least a few times this season when Carlos has ignored a called play and run something else, creating some confusion.

I remember a few times (against Indiana for example) where Carlos did something really stupid late in the game and Stan started yelling and jumping around like a madman. That's what I mean with "low bball IQ". I'd rather have him get in the flow early, make a few baskets/assists (he's one of the best passers to Dwight btw) and then park his ass on the bench.

However, I'm not an Arroyo homer by any means, in fact I'd rather trade the whole backcourt for a legit starting PG any day of the week.

[knappy]

Who's with me on this: Arroyo plays better when he starts, while Nelson is more clutch and an overall better finisher. Carlos' Bball IQ is just waaaay lower and he can make huge mistakes at the end of games (like giving the ball to dwight, a terrible FT shooter).

Given the PG rotation is mediocre anyway, the magic should try to maximise what they got, in my opinion.

(yes I know the Bucs are crap, but it's not the first time he's played well when starting, this season)

Will you guys ever give it up - Carlos is a 3rd string PG - nothing to get excited about. I'd say he sucks just because the Carlos love is so annoying, but he doesn't suck - he just isn't that good.

Give it a rest - I just hope another team picks him up next year so the silliness can stop. Carlos is a 3rd string PG with potential to be a backup on a different team - who cares.

Gortat has more upside.
Garrity has a better record than Carlos when Garrity gets minutes - should we start him in front of Rashard?

Carlos - please go to Miami! They'll love you there.

[drsd]

Dooling joins Nelson as day-to-day. Arroyo might keep getting big minutes.

[BassMaster]

Dooling joins Nelson as day-to-day. Arroyo might keep getting big minutes.

Dooling isn't a pg.

I don't want either Nelson or Arroyo give me a real pg instead.