Ban Howard Mass: The new draft thread

[theGreatRC]

That article is very interesting Rev.

Of course, you can't take the bias that the euro scouts into account when they say he should be the "#1 pick in the 2008 draft." American based scouts would say the same for any NCAA college player.

I haven't seen Gallinari, and I never look at highlights reels to determine the skill of a player, we'll just have to see his workout results in the summer.

[revprodeji]

Rose is a distributor, Foye is a scorer. An "attack' guard. If anything the positives they have in common would do well for them.

Shad does not play as much because he gets stupid fouls (3 quick ones today) Foye is plenty aggressive. That has never been a concern of his. Foye also moves very well without the ball and spots up well.

Foye's trade value is still not equal to his talent because he is coming back from an injury. I think Foye can provide 30+ min as a 1/2 very easily fitting with Rose.

The reason jaric starts with Foye is because we need offense off the bench and Shad provides that. Jaric also allows Foye to sometimes play off guard. Jaric's role can be replaced by Rose and we would have a very good system. The nba is becoming very guardcentric and whether it is Rose/Foye/Shad or Mayo/Shad/FOye (or bassy if health/resigned) it is important to have 3 starter quality guards to be able to play.

[jpatrick]

-= original quote snipped =-

Also, if the wolves do draft Rose imo Foye becomes redundant. He works best with the ball in his hands, so will Rose.

I don't know. He was pretty damn good at Nova and he never played the point there. I think Rose, Foye, McCants would be a very effective rotation. I don't think Brewer will ever be good enough of a ball handler to be a 2.

Chad Ford said that Gallinari is dropping in people's eyes a might go in the teens now. He said people are worried about his athletic ability and lack of a consistent outside shot. Normally I take Ford with a grain of salt, but he is fairly well connected with the Euro scene. We shall see.

I think the most likely scenario is we pick 3-6 and get Lopez. Which isn't bad.

[TheFranchise21]

A part of me wants to be mad at people for jumping on the Rose bandwagon but the other part is glad people are finally starting to see what I see.

[dunkonu21]

Do you really think we have a hole at 3 with whatever combo of Brewer/Gomes/Snyder we decide to role with?

[horaceworthy]

A part of me wants to be mad at people for jumping on the Rose bandwagon but the other part is glad people are finally starting to see what I see.

I think the majority of people had Rose rated as their #1 guy going into the year, but were pretty much forced to move him down due to Beasley's historically good season and Rose creating some question marks. Even so, I think a lot of the people who are "jumping on the Rose bandwagon" had Rose rated as the #2 guy on their boards. I think Watters hit it on the head in his thread in the draft board when he said something along the lines of "Rose has become everything people thought he would be, it just took him longer than most thought it would." Personally, he's answered just about every question I had about him, it wouldn't be fair of me to keep him behind Beasley.

[mandurugo]

That is completly wrong. FOye did a great job staying in front of Deron today. Foye has been playing very, very good defense. Shad can defend, his problem is he gets dumb fouls. I do not see anyone questioning these guys defense or desire to defend. Our defensive problem is we lack another big man next to Al to play windex and goalie.

The 3 guard rotation of Shad/FOye/ROse would be young and very effective. I do not see us overrating that in anyway. I think Brewer could be interesting as a 2, but his shot needs to vastly improve and so does his handle. I think he can get those to the point where he plays the 3 well, but the 2 is another thing. Also, that makes a hole at 3 and at 5.

Don't forget this quote from McCants: "I don't need to be a lock-down defender," McCants said. "I just need to be solid."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/13783511.html

That doesn't sound like a lot of desire to play defense to me. But I come from a different school of thought, I hate anybody to score on me. I think McCants is satisfied to look good on offense, it doesn't really bother him if he's scored on. Which doesn't make him unique amongst NBA players...

Anyway, a 3 guard line-up of Rose/Foye/McCants would be pretty good, but it is small at the 2 guard, especially when Foye is playing there. I don't care how many times people say he's 6'4" 220 lbs, I don't think he's an inch over 6'2" in his shoes. This isn't an arguement against Rose, the wolves need alot of help everywhere, so they need to take the BPA.

[Jonathan Watters]

I definitely think there is some negative overlap in the skillsets of Rose and Foye.

They are similar athletes/body types. Rose is more athletic, but both are a little too small to be a 2 and tall for a 1. You automatically get outsized most nights with this starting backcourt.

Neither is a good spot up shooter. This is huge, IMO. Hard to have a good offense with 2 sub 6'5 guards on the floor that can't spot up. You better have another elite shooter out there with them, and probably a tall one.

This is even more of an issue when you consider that both see the floor really well and would be better paired with somebody they can create for. We saw this issue all year with Rose in college, and it wasn't until he developed that devestating floater that he really blew up.

Not that a backcourt like this wouldn't work, because obviously Derrick Rose is a huge upgrade over anybody out there right now. But there are certainly some issues that should make Wolves fans a little less heartbroken if they don't end up with Rose or Beasley (I think you run into similar issues playing Jefferson and Beasley together).

With all this being said, if you get a top 2 pick it is obvious who you should pick. You don't pass on Derrick Rose because of Randy Foye. Sad, considering what could have been if Brandon Roy had been picked instead, but true.

[AQuintus]

According to the Draftexpress measurement database, Foye is 6'3.25'' in shoes with an 8'1'' standing reach. Not very good measurements for a guy who would be expected to play a good number of minutes at the 2.

[UGA Hayes]

I see no way you guys can pass up on Rose. Too big of an upgrade at your PG position.

[deeney0]

Foye is shooting 40.6% from 3... at what point does he become a good spot up shooter?

[Jonathan Watters]

Foye is shooting 40.6% from 3... at what point does he become a good spot up shooter?

When he's done it for more than a month and a half, AKA when teams start guarding him from out there.

[deeney0]

You can go back to the end of last season if you want.

March 2008: 40.4%
February 2008: 41.9%
April 2007: 50%

That's the last three months. There are lots of things about a Rose/Foye backcourt that worry me, but Randy's shooting isn't one of them.

[dunkonu21]

Randy Foye played a version of Power Forward in college and was a rebounding machine. He is fine at the 2 with how physical he can be.

[Klomp]

I definitely think there is some negative overlap in the skillsets of Rose and Foye.

They are similar athletes/body types. Rose is more athletic, but both are a little too small to be a 2 and tall for a 1. You automatically get outsized most nights with this starting backcourt.

Neither is a good spot up shooter. This is huge, IMO. Hard to have a good offense with 2 sub 6'5 guards on the floor that can't spot up. You better have another elite shooter out there with them, and probably a tall one.

This is even more of an issue when you consider that both see the floor really well and would be better paired with somebody they can create for. We saw this issue all year with Rose in college, and it wasn't until he developed that devestating floater that he really blew up.

Not that a backcourt like this wouldn't work, because obviously Derrick Rose is a huge upgrade over anybody out there right now. But there are certainly some issues that should make Wolves fans a little less heartbroken if they don't end up with Rose or Beasley (I think you run into similar issues playing Jefferson and Beasley together).

With all this being said, if you get a top 2 pick it is obvious who you should pick. You don't pass on Derrick Rose because of Randy Foye. Sad, considering what could have been if Brandon Roy had been picked instead, but true.

Other teams have done well with small backcourts. Golden State, Dallas are the two that come to mind.

[C.lupus]

Other teams have done well with small backcourts. Golden State, Dallas are the two that come to mind.

And they have how many championships combined?



just playing devils advocate here.

[jpatrick]

-= original quote snipped =-



And they have how many championships combined?



just playing devils advocate here.

How big was that Thomas/Dumars backcourt? They won't be nearly as good, but I think Detroit's Thomas/Dumars/Vinny Johnson is what T-wovles fans would hope Rose/Foye/McCants would turn into if they were lucky enough to draft Rose.

I actually have less fears with Rose/Foye working together than I do Jefferson/Beasley. I think that would be a defensive nightmare.

Then again wouldn't it be great if we had to debate picking Rose or Beasley. Most likely we'll be debating Lopez/Randolph, etc.

[horaceworthy]

I definitely think there is some negative overlap in the skillsets of Rose and Foye.

They are similar athletes/body types. Rose is more athletic, but both are a little too small to be a 2 and tall for a 1. You automatically get outsized most nights with this starting backcourt.

Neither is a good spot up shooter. This is huge, IMO. Hard to have a good offense with 2 sub 6'5 guards on the floor that can't spot up. You better have another elite shooter out there with them, and probably a tall one.

This is even more of an issue when you consider that both see the floor really well and would be better paired with somebody they can create for. We saw this issue all year with Rose in college, and it wasn't until he developed that devestating floater that he really blew up.

Not that a backcourt like this wouldn't work, because obviously Derrick Rose is a huge upgrade over anybody out there right now. But there are certainly some issues that should make Wolves fans a little less heartbroken if they don't end up with Rose or Beasley (I think you run into similar issues playing Jefferson and Beasley together).

With all this being said, if you get a top 2 pick it is obvious who you should pick. You don't pass on Derrick Rose because of Randy Foye. Sad, considering what could have been if Brandon Roy had been picked instead, but true.

I agree about the size issue, but I think both are strong enough not to get abused on the block, and would create enough issues for the other team with their speed and ability to get into the paint to mitigate most SG's being able to shoot over them.

Foye's actually a pretty good spot up shooter. He shot a 36.8% from distance as a rookie, and is shooting 40.6% this season despite a 4-19 start in his first 7 games (when he was getting his sea legs under him). Where Foye's shot really needs work is off the dribble, where he tends to go up off balance too often. There would be a danger in making him mostly a spot up shooter, since he's capable of bringing more to the table, and while he's good spotting up, he isn't lights out.

I agree somewhat, especially since Jefferson's strength lies more in his ability to create his own shot than to get created for (but Craig Smith would have a field day if he's kept around). Still, despite the possibilty of a "too many cooks spoil the soup" situation, I'd rather have two creators out there than a dearth of them. The dual creators in the backcourt scenario has worked out pretty well for the Spurs, although they don't run into the size issue with Manu.

In the end though, you're right. There are some potential, even likely negatives to the situation, but if Rose is on the board, you don't pass on him due to Foye.

[big3_8_19_21]

nbadraft.net updated, we got Bayless, Rush, Hardin...I'd take it.
DX has us getting Brook Lopez, Courtney Lee, and JR Giddens. I think I'd rather have Jason Thompson and Bill Walker in the 2nd, who are both available at both our picks in their mock.

[AQuintus]

Brook and Robin Lopez both just officially declared for the draft. Here's to hoping that Robin slips to the second round.