Is Dwayne Wade overrated???

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal

User avatar
Wade2k6
RealGM
Posts: 15,104
And1: 77
Joined: May 29, 2004
 

 

Post#61 » by Wade2k6 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:12 pm

The Rebel wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Where has wade ever proven to be better then Melo or Bosh? Once he started getting the defenses attention as opposed to Shaq as it was from his second year on, The Heat and wade have been far from impressive. How good has his record been without Shaq? Even last year when he was healthy the Heat were bad during Shaq's yearly absence, this year they are horrible. Whether Heat fans like it or not Shaq has always and will always draw most of the defenses attention, as a fan I never worried about what Wade would do when the Nuggets faced the Heat, but instead how the hell we were going to stop Shaq.

His rookie year he put up good numbers but far from spectacular, and he was the third option on the team. Until Wade can prove that he can put up good numbers or lead a team anywhere, while being the true number 1 option he does not deserve to be called a top ten player.

To me he is another Penny hardaway, who some used to argue was the best SG in the league not named Jordan, even before the injuries he was far from spectacular without shaq.


Lol I don't know where to start.

When has Wade ever proven to be better then Bosh or Melo? You can't be series can you? Wade can put up better numbers, better team records, better accolades, and has had far and away the most playoff success of the three players, considering Melo nor Bosh have ever won a playoff series (Maybe Bosh has, I forget) But Melo sure as hell hasn't. I guess having a 3-12 career playoff record is better then Wades 33-22 record, with a finals championship and MVP, right? Wade has 2X the amount of playoff wins then Melo, in his rookie year alone.

Actually last year while Shaq was out the Heat were several games over .500 when he returned, and that's not to mention Wade was putting up the best numbers in the game, and it showed when he had the highest PER last year.

Lol his rookie year he put up good numbers but not spectacular. Okay, well you must have very high expectations for rookies then, because he put up 16 ppg, 4.5 apg, 4 rpg.

Until he can prove to put up good numbers while being the number 1 option and leading his team to something he won't be a top ten player? Okay, i guess Wade, KG, Kobe, Tmac, Nash, Amare, Dwight, Chris Paul all aren't top 10 players then. How many players in the game today have won a title while being the clear-cut number 1 option? I can tell you Wade has, and if you continue to argue Wade wasn't the number 1 option on the 2006 championship run then there's no use in arguing with you anymore. Duncan has, Shaq has. So, 3 players in about the last 7-8 years have been clear-cut number 1 options on their teams: Duncan, Shaq, Wade.

If you want to argue and say injuries are a concern for his future, that's a legit point, because they are. But there's nothing to say he can't turn it right back around next year fully healthy and lead his team far in the playoffs with a completely healthy Heat team.
PharoaheMonch
Banned User
Posts: 5,924
And1: 3
Joined: Jan 18, 2003

 

Post#62 » by PharoaheMonch » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Wade is starting to become under-rated. One tanking/sacrificial season and he's over-rated...hahaha
conleyorbust
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,837
And1: 0
Joined: May 24, 2007

Re: Wade is talented 

Post#63 » by conleyorbust » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:09 pm

Flash3 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Over the past few years, Wade has gotten no more free shots from the refs than Kobe, Lebron, Iverson, or Arenas. There was an effort by the leage to raise scoring so they started giving perimeter players the benefit of the doubt.


I try and bring this up a lot but people don't really seem to pay attention to it.

I'm not a Heat fan, I don't really like the Heat, I hate the way Wade gets calls from the refs when the Hawks play the Heat (and how they get to replay games against us when they don't like outcome). However, I hate playing the Lakers because every time Kobe decides to try and "take over" and he takes a stupid jumper, he stumbles a little when he lands and it rims out and he goes to the line. I hate playing the Cavs because as unstoppable as Bron is when he "puts his head down", he also isn't looking and is actually charging but he never gets called for it. I love Allen Iverson, little guy who is tough as nails, but the only reason he isn't the most inefficient player in the history of the game is because the refs let him carry the ball and blow the whistle when he jumps in the bigger players. I could go on about Arenas, Pierce, Melo, or any of the "stars" in the league. The point is that Wade knows how the game is played and reffed and he takes advantage of it, just like Kobe, just like Bron. It is the literal embodiment of "don't hate the playa, hate the game".

Now lets take a minute to talk about players and their physical peaks. Wade is far below his physical peak this season. Thats why his PER (not perfect, I know) this season is so far below what it was last season when he played without O'Neal for a most of his games... in other words, O'Neal doesn't make Wade good. You could argue that he made the team a lot better, but Wade's stats are largely independant of Shaq. Wade's stats are down a lot this year and it has nothing to do with Shaq. His team is worse because he is hurt and less effective... it has nothing to do with some mythical ability to "carry" a bad team. It has nothing to do with Eric Snow or Smush Parker. Wade shouldn't have been playing this season.

Speaking of physical peaks and Shaq. Writerman, the difference between peak Shaq and 06 Shaq is the difference between peak Wilt and the NBA vintage A-train. One is gonna lead you to a title, one is going to be an efficient scorer in the middle but can't be the best player on a championship team. I know you hate today's wing players as much as you hate "hip-hop music" or "baggy jeans and bandanas" but you have to accept certain things. You can think that Wade doesn't hold a candle to Thompson, the Doc, Frazier, or whoever and you are probably right. You can't think that Wade rode Shaq's coat-tails to a finals trophy unless you just looked at the roster of the winning team and made the assumption.
writerman
Banned User
Posts: 6,836
And1: 5
Joined: Sep 02, 2002

Re: Wade is talented 

Post#64 » by writerman » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:41 pm

[quote="conleyorbust"][/quote]

You're right that '06 Shaq wasn't peak Shaq. But the fact remains that the center position in the NBA is such an embarrassment today compared to previous eras that '06 Shaq was probably still fairly easily the dominant 5 in the league. His presence in the paint opens things up for perimeter players like Wade. Did Shaq carry the team? No--obviously Wade shouldered more of the responsibility than he did. But as I said, just his being there even in diminished effectiveness, just the respect he has to command from the opposition, does things for his teammates-especially Wade--that probably no one else could have.
conleyorbust
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,837
And1: 0
Joined: May 24, 2007

Re: Wade is talented 

Post#65 » by conleyorbust » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:13 pm

writerman wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You're right that '06 Shaq wasn't peak Shaq. But the fact remains that the center position in the NBA is such an embarrassment today compared to previous eras that '06 Shaq was probably still fairly easily the dominant 5 in the league. His presence in the paint opens things up for perimeter players like Wade. Did Shaq carry the team? No--obviously Wade shouldered more of the responsibility than he did. But as I said, just his being there even in diminished effectiveness, just the respect he has to command from the opposition, does things for his teammates-especially Wade--that probably no one else could have.


Of course having Shaq there helped. He was a great role player on that otherwise mediocre team. The fact that Wade could do what he did in those finals, not to mention the rest of his young but accomplished career, means that his peak ability is higher than almost any other wing to play the game - ever. Over the 23 games those playoffs he was basically 28-6-6 on .500 shooting and .378 for 3 (from a non-deep shooter). He carried his team past the two best teams in basketball, people forget how nasty he was against Detroit.

I don't see what more he has to do to prove to you, or anyone else, that he is legit. Does he have to win a title with only D-Leaguers for support? Do we hold other stars to the same accord as him and say that Duncan's accomplishments don't mean as much because he had Parker and Ginobili?

I mean, sure, Shaq helped but so what?
big123
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,892
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Contact:

 

Post#66 » by big123 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:54 pm

Wade is a top 10-15 player in the league. Top 2-3 SG ( I honesty think it's debatable between Wade and AI after Kobe).

No particular order these are my top 15 players for every position......

Kobe
Lebron
KG
Duncan
Paul
Howard
Melo
Dirk
Wade
Iverson
Arenas
T-Mac
Yao
Nash
Amare
User avatar
miamiballer
General Manager
Posts: 8,182
And1: 1,557
Joined: May 11, 2002
Location: MIA

 

Post#67 » by miamiballer » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:04 am

big123 wrote:Wade is a top 10-15 player in the league. Top 2-3 SG ( I honesty think it's debatable between Wade and AI after Kobe).

No particular order these are my top 15 players for every position......

Kobe
Lebron
KG
Duncan
Paul
Howard
Melo
Dirk
Wade
Iverson
Arenas
T-Mac
Yao
Nash
Amare


this may be true this season but pre-injury wade is top 5 in the nba. whether he will get back to that form next season remains to be seen but people act like they know wade is done
User avatar
dockingsched
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 56,660
And1: 23,966
Joined: Aug 02, 2005
     

 

Post#68 » by dockingsched » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:48 am

i give this thread 2 months into next season to be bumped back. some people have some really short memories with the way they disrespect wade. give him two months into next season to remind everyone whats up.
"We must try not to sink beneath our anguish, Harry, but battle on." - Dumbledore
risktaker91
Banned User
Posts: 2,487
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 18, 2007

 

Post#69 » by risktaker91 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:20 am

If anything D-Wade is underrated now. Wade will surprise everyone next year going 30/7/7.
Cafu
Rookie
Posts: 1,185
And1: 398
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
   

 

Post#70 » by Cafu » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:41 am

Healthy Wade is top 10 at least, if not top 5. But I hope he wont have a injury career like Penny, this man is too fragile sometimes.
User avatar
CB4MiamiHeat
General Manager
Posts: 8,694
And1: 2
Joined: Jun 13, 2004

 

Post#71 » by CB4MiamiHeat » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:35 pm

The Rebel wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Where has wade ever proven to be better then Melo or Bosh?


:lol:
ice9
Veteran
Posts: 2,983
And1: 140
Joined: Feb 22, 2006

 

Post#72 » by ice9 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:27 pm

Lebron
Kobe
Duncan
KG
Paul
Howard
Dirk
Amare

Are probably the only guys that Wade doesn't beat out, and that's not saying they are all necessarily better than him. He isn't top 5 right now, but top 10? Yea.
big123
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,892
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Contact:

 

Post#73 » by big123 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:55 pm

miamiballer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



this may be true this season but pre-injury wade is top 5 in the nba. whether he will get back to that form next season remains to be seen but people act like they know wade is done


I'm not rating him on this season. He's a top 10 player because of other guys have stepped into the top 10 this year IMO (Paul, Howard etc.). It's debatable where in the 10 he is though. Just like Iverson isn't in the top 10 anymore because other guys have stepped in to make the elite field larger.
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 50,858
And1: 33,668
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

 

Post#74 » by og15 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:08 pm

You need people to overatte you to be overatted don't you? Considering Wade is hardly being "rated" this season, he can't be overatted. It's funny how injuries and a bad team can make a player seem terrible in people's eyes. McGrady has probably had the funniest up and downs regarding to that.

What about KG? That was a good time from 04-05 to 06-07 with him wasn't it.
User avatar
zebraman2
Junior
Posts: 488
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 15, 2004

 

Post#75 » by zebraman2 » Tue Apr 1, 2008 8:45 am

Wade was the no1 player in the NBA 2006 to 2007 when he got injured. He had allo those mid-season MVPs wrapped up.

So in one year he has fallen so far?

I think there are some people who feel a little intimidated in his brillance. Well Bosh, Kobe and LeBron fans, you have one season to win a championship for yourself. Better make the most of it. You won't get it again.
The Wright Flight is taking off
Kosta
RealGM
Posts: 16,353
And1: 2
Joined: Apr 03, 2006

 

Post#76 » by Kosta » Tue Apr 1, 2008 9:11 am

Yes. By the national media that is, they still herald him as a superstar on the level of a LeBron/Kobe, the amount of games televised nationally of the Miami Heat this season was disgraceful, and it's not like they couldn't drop their games, they did with the Blazers when they found out Oden was done for the year. They started dropping Heat games when Wade was down for the count, but kept them on when he was still playing. I think he's still regarded as a top flight player in the NBA, and I don't doubt that he's still great, but he has a lot to prove before he can earn that status again. If he wasn't fully healthy, why was he playing basketball this season? Maybe he's just lost a step? He might want to consider changing his reckless style of play and focus on improving his jump shooting and decision making, because he can't take the constant punishment, attacking the rim on every play.

So yes, he's overrated, but only because he was so great on '06 and the memories are still fresh. One more season like this and his popularity will take a V.C turn.
User avatar
andyhop
Analyst
Posts: 3,628
And1: 1,320
Joined: May 08, 2007
   

 

Post#77 » by andyhop » Tue Apr 1, 2008 3:50 pm

dcash4 wrote:i give this thread 2 months into next season to be bumped back. some people have some really short memories with the way they disrespect wade. give him two months into next season to remind everyone whats up.


If he wants his position in the rankings back he is going to have to prove he can stay healthy for a lot more than 2 months of next season.With the way he plays the game and the size he is it is unlikely considering the precedence of similar players( in turns of style and size) that he will play over 80% of the games in a season more than once or twice more in his career.
"Football is not a matter of life and death...it's much more important than that."- Bill Shankley
Nebroc
Senior
Posts: 615
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 08, 2006

 

Post#78 » by Nebroc » Tue Apr 1, 2008 4:17 pm

zebraman2 wrote:Wade was the no1 player in the NBA 2006 to 2007 when he got injured. He had allo those mid-season MVPs wrapped up.
Um no. The heat weren't even above .500 before Shaq came back before all-star break.

Return to Player Comparisons