Dikrless vs. Oakland. 3/30 2007, 6PM. FSN

[Chris Cohan]

You're joking, right?

[Chris Cohan]

Ellis' rebounding game is predicated upon using his hops and speed to steal rebounds. He gets a lot because he's very, very good at it. He weighs 170 lbs., is about the shortest guy on the florr most of the time, and still manages to outrebound lazy bums like Jackson and Davis as well as outclassing hacky back-climbers like Al Harringotn.

You're saying you want him to play like a center. He steals boards from centers. If he tried to box out instead of nosing out, racing to, and outjumping slowpokes for the boards he gets, the Warrirors would be even worse off on the glass than they already are.

Ridiculous.

[KR4]

outclassing hacky back-climbers

HA!!!

[FNQ]

The other players are supposed to cover up for Monta leaking out early

Tay can get OREB whenever he wants... I dont care about that. But he should never be getting DREB... if he is, that means 4 other people on the team aren't doing their job.

Who runs fastbreaks? Tay and Baron... occasionally you'll see Barnes or Jax run one, or one of the scrubs try and run one, but its always Baron or Tay.. his affect on defensive rebounding should be zero.

If we're going to nitpick about not sealing out, the guilty parties are everyone not named Jax and Harrington... they are the only 2 people who consistently get a body on someone. Biedrins, Wright, Buke, Pietrus, Baron, Tay, Barnes... they all rely on athleticism, length, and in some cases luck to pull down boards. Though you can't really fault Biedrins too much, as other defenses will focus on boxing him out if he starts to kill them down low, as they realize no other W's are really that into rebounding.

[floppymoose]

You're saying you want him to play like a center. He steals boards from centers. If he tried to box out instead of nosing out, racing to, and outjumping slowpokes for the boards he gets, the Warrirors would be even worse off on the glass than they already are.

I understand what you are saying. For most possessions, I agree with you. My main problem is when he *doesn't* go for the rebound and *also* doesn't box out his man, and then watches his man score a putback.

If you don't see a way to grab it, and aren't leaking out, then at least box out your man. It's the possessions just standing there that bother me.

[FNQ]

I feel the actual reason Tay doesnt get rebounds is that he's conserving energy... that's the homer excuse for the week, right? It turns out that that's why the W's don't blow anyone out. Playing smart ball for 36 minutes against a poor team tires you out more than having to scramble and eek out a victory in 48... nothing relaxes a team and conserves energy like a 47.5 nailbiter against the worse teams in the league.

[Chris Cohan]

-= original quote snipped =-



I understand what you are saying. For most possessions, I agree with you. My main problem is when he *doesn't* go for the rebound and *also* doesn't box out his man, and then watches his man score a putback.

If you don't see a way to grab it, and aren't leaking out, then at least box out your man. It's the possessions just standing there that bother me.

Ellis could use work on plenty of fundamental elements he hasn't put much of his time into yet but I'll bet his coach is hardly interested in anything that doesn't capitalize to the fullest upon his obscene talents and tailor-made speed scoring game in the Nelson attack.

I still think having this conversation at all point squarely at the larger issue: Don Nelson tries to jerry-rig a rebounding game and defense by getting little dudes to swarm the ball constantly wherever it's coming from, whatever it's bouncing away from, whomever it's being passed toward, or whenever it's hiding behind someone's hands/arms/kidneys.

[turk3d]

I really do not see Monta getting outrebounded to much by whoever it is that's playing him. What I'm more concerned with regarding his Defense is when guys get by him (which has been pretty consistent this half of the season). Both he and Baron outrebound just about every guards they play against (they are leading the league in points scored by a tandem, I'd be willing they're pretty high up their rebounding guard tandems, if not #1 in that too). I'm with Reg and Rowell on that, our rebounding problems (which we certainly have) is with the "bigs" (mainly Al, although he's been showing improvement as of late) and not our guards.

[GSWbandwagon]

murphy was pretty consistent at putting up big rebounding numbers. he probably outrebounded his man most nights. he still wasn't helping the team's rebounding. team rebounding numbers with a player on and off the floor are more telling than individual rebound numbers.

as for the bigs, think of how much better andris' rebounding numbers would look if he wasn't fighting 3 guys for every board.

[floppymoose]

GSW captures my sentiments here exactly.

[Sid the Squid]

GSW captures my sentiments here exactly.

me too..I just don't like to go on the record as being in agreement with 2 mods at the same time...Yuck..

[Chris Cohan]

Monta the rebounder's job is to secure a rebound if and when he can or hit the break. The knock that says he doesn't hit the break sometimes is the only valid one.

This kid still leads the NBA in fast break points so he must leak out-- which can be the motto for the entire Nelson team any night-- just plenty.

The Warriors are a crap rebounding team, period. Single out one guy who actually secures possessions for the team at a plus rate from his position if you need it, it won't change his skyrpcketing value and the fact that he is not yet secured as a longtime Warrior.

You want him gone because you saw something on 82 games, is that it?

[Chris Cohan]

These supposedly catastrophic rebounding margins are SLIM and he still has a net plus effect.

Your made up observational data is worse. You're just reading stats and ignoring the times he does box or the uncanny ability he has to rebound out of crowds and earn us possessions we score on all the time and that, if he didn't actually secure possessions, would result in far worse team numbers.

He's totally closed on Baron, who has been WEAK second half, in major ways in Roland and whatever.

This is such a bulls__t complaint, Flop and GSW.

Mommy, what's "win percentage" ?
http://www.82games.com/0708/0708GSW1.HTM

Let's say Baron is vital and we can't win without him. Well, we're without him ONCE AGAIN when it counts and when the opponents are tough almost every night. 5-5 in the last 10 games and Baron is dead last in that mysterious +/- figure.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/le ... m=Warriors

Pietrus had a good last ten individual games but those obviously don't overlap with the 5-5 stretch.

When the going gets tough, the tough go to LA.

Monta has been wildly consistent for the most part but suddenly sucks at rebounding on the league's craziest rebounding/defending team.

Silly.

[floppymoose]

What's silly? That I wish he would box out when he isn't leaking, isn't skying for it himself, and he would otherwise be just standing around? Then color me silly.

[Sleepy51]

Dirk is preparing to play on a bloody stump wednesday and Pete is still icing his hymen.

What gives?