Worried about the heat.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #61 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:04 pm

Exactly. One-trick pony would be a better nickname for him than the lame "Flash" Shaq bestowed upon him.

Prior to the Finals when the refs, I mean, Heat beat the Mavs, Wade wasn't even on anyone's top 5 or top 10 lists of best player in the league.

Goes to show you how good the NBA marketing department is!

bruno sundov · Post #62 » by **bruno sundov** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:08 pm

How can a 6'5" sg/ with pg skills be overrated? Dude is nasty. The only one even close to him is LBJ. Now LBJ is better. But by how much?

LBJ is a 6'8" 3 or 4, w/ pg skill.s That is the difference. He is Dwade on steroids.

TheCelticTruth · Post #63 » by **TheCelticTruth** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:39 pm

i didnt intend to start a wade bashing, because thats nuts. he is slightly overrated, or maybe exaggerated is a better word.

hes not superman which some fans seem to believe, but hes no worse than a top 15 player whatever argument you make or reasoning you might have

AWalkerREMIX · Post #64 » by **AWalkerREMIX** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:36 pm

bruno sundov wrote:How can a 6'5" sg/ with pg skills be overrated? Dude is nasty. The only one even close to him is LBJ. Now LBJ is better. But by how much?

LBJ is a 6'8" 3 or 4, w/ pg skill.s That is the difference. He is Dwade on steroids.

How can a 6'5" sg with pg skills be overrated? It's easy. They're just not as good as people think they are. See Larry Hughes, Jalen Rose, Stephon Marbury, and Steve Francis as clear examples over the last few years.

bruno sundov · Post #65 » by **bruno sundov** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 1:24 pm

AWalkerREMIX wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

How can a 6'5" sg with pg skills be overrated? It's easy. They're just not as good as people think they are. See Larry Hughes, Jalen Rose, Stephon Marbury, and Steve Francis as clear examples over the last few years.

I think that is where you are wrong in comparing Wade to these scrubs. Hughes,Rose,Marbury and Francis are the definition of premadonna NBA players. None of these guys have the body Dwade does either. They are all tweeners. D wade is a legite 2, with one skills. Rose had the body and not the shot.

Wade is tough and a team player. Think of his rookie year when he lead the heat to the playoffs. It wasn't Lamar Odom carrying the team the last month it was D wade.

AWalkerREMIX · Post #66 » by **AWalkerREMIX** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 5:50 pm

bruno sundov wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I think that is where you are wrong in comparing Wade to these scrubs. Hughes,Rose,Marbury and Francis are the definition of premadonna NBA players. None of these guys have the body Dwade does either. They are all tweeners. D wade is a legite 2, with one skills. Rose had the body and not the shot.

Wade is tough and a team player. Think of his rookie year when he lead the heat to the playoffs. It wasn't Lamar Odom carrying the team the last month it was D wade.

Don't get me wrong. I like Dwyane Wade. He was one of my favorite players coming out of college. Is he a top 15-20 player in this league? I don't think so. Is he better than all of those guys I listed in their prime? Sure. Is it still possible for a 6'5" SG with PG skills to be overrated? Yes, absolutely...as I pointed out.

O.Z.123 · Post #67 » by **O.Z.123** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 7:41 pm

TheCelticTruth wrote:i never said he shouldnt be in the discussion as a top player, i just couldnt then and cant now put him in the top five, because hes not a great rebounder, hes not a great defender, and sometimes he can only do so much being a good but not great shooter, 6'4 but without the complement of pg skills.

as of now, i agree, i couldn't put him in the top 5.. but a lot of that has to do with it being nearly 2 years since i last saw that level of d wade. At that time period tho, 2 years ago, chris paul wasn't part of the discussion and dirk essentially bettered duncan consistently as a regular season/playoff performer and outplayed (or at least, at a high level, matched) him in their playoff series and got the W to boot. so in fairness dirk had to be in the top 5 discussion that year, and yet he clearly took a back seat to d wade as "the guy", wade who was also great in previous post season and regular season play.

that year i'd say it was
lebron
kobe
wade
dirk
duncan

a lot of wade's praise and fascination i feel came from his style of offense and just how efficient his shooting could be with that type of game for long periods of time (which could stretch several games in a given series).
of course, a lot of it had to do with the knack for and opportunistic nature he had in drawing shooting fouls, as far as helping him be so efficient (more time to rest/gather himself while "practicing"/correcting his shooting form, being rewarded points for it and frustrating the opposing team w/ foul trouble and tentativeness)

its to the point where, mentally, defenses would become too worried about the drive/the shot/ the touch foul/and the pump fake all in one package that it could get very ugly very quickly, as dallas and detroit can vouch. it didnt help either that at the time he was naturally quicker and more deceptive (both because of his size) than positions 2-5 while still being stronger and bigger than the point guards.

thats probably why i'd take him over paul pierce.. while both of them can catch fire.. the defense ultimately suffers more, long term, with wade. pierce may settle for some 3s for a heat check, but wade's 3s are 3 point plays, and he's always looking to settle for those.

he may not be as good in other areas as the the other top players (not meaning that he's bad at them areas either) but his ability to "work the system" on offense is better than a lot of those same players unless you're speaking of a lebron or a kobe. Everyone else's limitations... being dependent on their jump shot (arenas, tmac, dirk at times), dependent on positioning (duncan) poor freethrow shooting (duncan) not one to draw fouls (kg, dirk), tendency to disappear in the 4th (kg, duncan)... puts them a step back behind wade from an offensive category. duncan, as an aside, is also RIDICULOUS at working the system and drawing fouls as long as he's in his element/parameters.

of course, there's been no mention of defense yet and TD's and KGs team defense more than offset a lot of their limitations/inconsistencies on offense. but i feel ('06) d wade's offense more than offset a lot of the other things he may not have been the best at too. as in, you can rank him outside of the top anything but if the score is tied going into the 4th with him on one team then u better hope u have kobe or lebron on the other team.

O.Z.123 · Post #68 » by **O.Z.123** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 7:50 pm

to clarify by "step behind d wade in offense" i meant in particular when facing great defense. its hard to play great aggressive defense on dwade as oppose to dirk or kg or even kobe (as battier sometimes has shown, rarely tho) because those guys will try and manuever around or above the physical contact.. where as d wade will attack it and be the aggressor with the incentive to draw the foul.. duncan does this too but doesn't have the quickness advantage to beat the double teams nor the great ft%.

kobe attacks it too but, again, he looks more to elevate with the fadeaway rather than draw the foul (unless he finds himself going all the way to the basket)

bruno sundov · Post #69 » by **bruno sundov** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 8:05 pm

AWalkerREMIX wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Don't get me wrong. I like Dwyane Wade. He was one of my favorite players coming out of college. Is he a top 15-20 player in this league? I don't think so. Is he better than all of those guys I listed in their prime? Sure. Is it still possible for a 6'5" SG with PG skills to be overrated? Yes, absolutely...as I pointed out.

So here is a question for you. Would you rather have Dwade or Ray Allen?

here is another one for ya. how about dwade or Paul Pierce, and be honest?

I take Dwade over both those guys. Not who is having a better year. Who is the better player.

AWalkerREMIX · Post #70 » by **AWalkerREMIX** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 8:43 pm

bruno sundov wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So here is a question for you. Would you rather have Dwade or Ray Allen?

here is another one for ya. how about dwade or Paul Pierce, and be honest?

I take Dwade over both those guys. Not who is having a better year. Who is the better player.

For this Celtics team? I would easily take Ray Allen. He's a consistent shooter and it Dwyane Wade and Paul Pierce would not mesh well together at all. Who would I take if I had to choose between Wade and Pierce? That one's SO easy, I can't believe you asked...easily Paul Pierce. Pierce is by far the better player. He's the better shooter, better finisher, better rebounder...he is stronger and smarter. The only thing Wade has on him is more advertisements.

Gar4man · Post #71 » by **Gar4man** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 9:19 pm

eh, overrated.

bruno sundov · Post #72 » by **bruno sundov** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 10:10 pm

AWalkerREMIX wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

For this Celtics team? I would easily take Ray Allen. He's a consistent shooter and it Dwyane Wade and Paul Pierce would not mesh well together at all. Who would I take if I had to choose between Wade and Pierce? That one's SO easy, I can't believe you asked...easily Paul Pierce. Pierce is by far the better player. He's the better shooter, better finisher, better rebounder...he is stronger and smarter. The only thing Wade has on him is more advertisements.

I would take wade over ray. he can finish around the basket and is an excellent passer.

As for Paul. I would still take Paul because he is sucha better rebounder and shooter.

paul and Dwade would mesh great. All passers mesh well with their teams. for the most part anyways,i.e., Jkidd in dallas. that just hasnt worked at all.