Yeah, I wished there was a site like that, but it was just an NBA notes type thing from.
You can't really look stats up, but on ESPN's Charlotte Bobcats home page, it posts some "fun" stats every now and then like that. I think one was in a recent game where Mohammed and the other starting center only combined for like 1 FG, and it set a record or something.
Guess who holds the Bobcats' record for...
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Paydro70
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Well, assuming (probably rightfully) that every minute Knight was on the floor he played PG, and that every minute Ray played WITH Knight or McInnis he was playing SG, Brevin played 5568 minutes with the Bobcats, and Ray has played 5141 minutes at the point.
This is based on the same stats jdm3 used, hence the "400" figure. I have no reason to doubt its accuracy... it's derived from the boxscores. The only real issue is that the system works by ranking the players by position likelihood... meaning the system counts Ray as an SG when on the floor with players X, Y, and Z, PG otherwise. No problems really with Ray, but sometimes its arguable.
This of course doesn't mean anything, because Ray gets plenty of assists at the SG spot, where he's played another 2700 minutes, and averaged 6-8 assists per 48. Brevin has averaged more assists on a per minute basis at the point his entire career. There are many reasons why this is so, but certainly raw passing ability also favors Knight.
This is based on the same stats jdm3 used, hence the "400" figure. I have no reason to doubt its accuracy... it's derived from the boxscores. The only real issue is that the system works by ranking the players by position likelihood... meaning the system counts Ray as an SG when on the floor with players X, Y, and Z, PG otherwise. No problems really with Ray, but sometimes its arguable.
This of course doesn't mean anything, because Ray gets plenty of assists at the SG spot, where he's played another 2700 minutes, and averaged 6-8 assists per 48. Brevin has averaged more assists on a per minute basis at the point his entire career. There are many reasons why this is so, but certainly raw passing ability also favors Knight.
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W_HAMILTON
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And what are the stats on Felton playing SG vs PG? I thought you said he has historically played better at SG than at PG, so I am wondering if that's still the case, and where you can find a breakdown of his PER per position year-by-year (since I assume that is what you used).
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BeesWax
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Hamilton I got this.
Last year the team averaged 98.5 point for 95.9 points against with him at SG. At PG it was 96.3 to 99.6.
This year it is 95.3 for to 102.5 against at SG and 97 for to 98.6 against.
This may be because of what is around him though. I am pretty sure no one here would argue Knight is way above Boykins and Mcinnis. It is a matter of the five best on the court and this year there has not been another point that was worth putting out there with Felton.
Last year the team averaged 98.5 point for 95.9 points against with him at SG. At PG it was 96.3 to 99.6.
This year it is 95.3 for to 102.5 against at SG and 97 for to 98.6 against.
This may be because of what is around him though. I am pretty sure no one here would argue Knight is way above Boykins and Mcinnis. It is a matter of the five best on the court and this year there has not been another point that was worth putting out there with Felton.
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Paydro70
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I would argue Knight is way above Boykins and McInnis, at least last year. Two years ago the gap was huge.
It's actually been very strange and inconsistent.
In 05-06, Felton was almost equal between the two positions, 15 at PG, 15.4 at SG. Felton's shooting was actually HUGELY better (.495 vs. .410), and his turnovers fell to accommodate the lost assists, but he also rebounded worse, got to the line less, and fouling a lot less.
Also, weirdly enough, opposing SGs did much worse against Ray than opposing PGs.
On a team basis, Ray helped the offense a lot, but hurt the defense a little. By position, he helped the offense more at SG, but helped the defense at PG.
To summarize: His rookie season, Ray was a slightly more effective overall player at SG than PG. While he defended shooting guards better, the TEAM defended worse with him at SG. My interpretation of this would be that Brevin was a poor defender that season, and so when Ray played PG (meaning BK wasn't playing) the team played better defense. The team played better on offense with Ray on the floor, regardless of where, and the difference between positions on that front was marginal.
In 06-07, Ray played notably better at SG than PG (1 PER), with all the same trends holding up (fewer fouls, better shooting%, fewer free throws). He again allowed fewer PER at SG than PG, and the team played better offense AND defense with him on the court at SG (well, at PG too, but more at SG). Amazingly, we actually had a positive scoring margin (+2.7) in Ray's minutes with Brevin Knight. IN THEORY, that would make us somewhere around a 47-win team.
This season, Ray is once again producing more PER at SG than PG. The FG% improvement is lower, but he's been producing more assists at the SG spot than he used to (to take over for McInnis I suppose). However, this is the first season that Ray has defended point guards dramatically better than shooting guards. The team also plays better on offense and defense with him at point guard, although this is again probably the McInnis effect.
So there you have it... when Ray is playing SG, he shoots and scores better than at PG, so his PER has usually been slightly better. Weirdly, he has allowed lower PER at SG his first two years, and only this year has been defending PGs better. Ray has, however, helped the team play better at both positions, all 3 years. His rookie year the team was better on offense with him at SG, defense at the point, his second year SG on both ends, and this year better at the point on both ends.
I would say that most likely the difference between McInnis and Knight is part of this... this year every minute Ray played point, McInnis was not playing, which was a good thing in all aspects of the game. Previously, Brevin Knight was at least okay, so while the team still played better offense with Ray at point, we played our best with Ray at SG WITH Brevin.
It's actually been very strange and inconsistent.
In 05-06, Felton was almost equal between the two positions, 15 at PG, 15.4 at SG. Felton's shooting was actually HUGELY better (.495 vs. .410), and his turnovers fell to accommodate the lost assists, but he also rebounded worse, got to the line less, and fouling a lot less.
Also, weirdly enough, opposing SGs did much worse against Ray than opposing PGs.
On a team basis, Ray helped the offense a lot, but hurt the defense a little. By position, he helped the offense more at SG, but helped the defense at PG.
To summarize: His rookie season, Ray was a slightly more effective overall player at SG than PG. While he defended shooting guards better, the TEAM defended worse with him at SG. My interpretation of this would be that Brevin was a poor defender that season, and so when Ray played PG (meaning BK wasn't playing) the team played better defense. The team played better on offense with Ray on the floor, regardless of where, and the difference between positions on that front was marginal.
In 06-07, Ray played notably better at SG than PG (1 PER), with all the same trends holding up (fewer fouls, better shooting%, fewer free throws). He again allowed fewer PER at SG than PG, and the team played better offense AND defense with him on the court at SG (well, at PG too, but more at SG). Amazingly, we actually had a positive scoring margin (+2.7) in Ray's minutes with Brevin Knight. IN THEORY, that would make us somewhere around a 47-win team.
This season, Ray is once again producing more PER at SG than PG. The FG% improvement is lower, but he's been producing more assists at the SG spot than he used to (to take over for McInnis I suppose). However, this is the first season that Ray has defended point guards dramatically better than shooting guards. The team also plays better on offense and defense with him at point guard, although this is again probably the McInnis effect.
So there you have it... when Ray is playing SG, he shoots and scores better than at PG, so his PER has usually been slightly better. Weirdly, he has allowed lower PER at SG his first two years, and only this year has been defending PGs better. Ray has, however, helped the team play better at both positions, all 3 years. His rookie year the team was better on offense with him at SG, defense at the point, his second year SG on both ends, and this year better at the point on both ends.
I would say that most likely the difference between McInnis and Knight is part of this... this year every minute Ray played point, McInnis was not playing, which was a good thing in all aspects of the game. Previously, Brevin Knight was at least okay, so while the team still played better offense with Ray at point, we played our best with Ray at SG WITH Brevin.