Why Zach Randolph Could Be A Sixer

[SendEm]

Notice that Zach Randolph supporters always yell "20 and 10" but they never yell "malcontent, selfish, loser." The stats that need to be available on Zach are the rank of his team's interior defense when he starts games. It HAS to be amongst the lowest in the league. We already know that his team's winning percentage is VERY low, but he has nothing to do with either? He's a bad basketball player. Sure he can have plays ran for him and he's capable of scoring the ball off of those plays but if a team is not running plays for him he CAN NOT CONTRIBUTE. He is worst than Reggie Evans as a role player because atleast Reggie can play defense, hustle, and rebound. Zach can ONLY position rebound, but he will stop rebounding if plays are not being ran for him. He's not mentally "all there" as a human being and basketball player.

Someone somewhere came up with the philosophy that a 20 and 10 PF automatically guarantees wins. You have to ask yourself how, why, and when is that player getting his 20 ppg and 10rpg. In Zach's case he's scoring off of his team running the ball through him on isolation plays and him shooting jumpers whenever he gets the ball.

Zach last season averaged 23 points and 10 rebounds while playing 35 minutes per night for a team that finished 32-50 and IMPROVED once they got rid of him having a 13 game winning streak the very next season. WTF??????????????????? He's a team killer, stat geeks will love him because they don't have the ability to see how his offensive abilities and defensive inabilities DESTROY team chemistry ALONG WITH his mind/personality.

Portland said that the moment that changed their whole franchise was last season after a game they lost, the players held a meeting after the game to address some things. Zach was pointing fingers and Brandon Roy stood up and said "Zach you have some things to work on too." Roy established himself as the team leader at that moment over what influence Zach had as the franchise player with a max contract.

Zach Randolph is what Chris Gatling would have been had he played in today's watered down NBA where any PF that can average around 20 and 10 gets maxed out contract or something close to it. In the old NBA they recognized these kinds of bad team players as 6th men and bench scorers, but in today's NBA they draft these kinds of players high and build their egos so that they will NEVER be mentally capable of being a bench player.

[SendEm]

Skates, please next time do some research....

the ratio you speak of for Randolph is 1.15

Leon Powe is 1.14

Evans is 1.43

Dalembert's is 1.7

Glen Davis is 1.25

Okafor is 1.7

Big Z is 1.89

Yao is 1.45....

Warrick is 1.36

Al Jefferson is 1.9

Tyson Chandler is 1.44

D-Howard is 1.40

Shaq, granted having a limited season, is 1.13

Wilcox is 1.47

So, with this info, I am to assume that Wilcox is better than Chandler, Howard, Yao, and Randolph?

Or that Reggie Evans is on the same level as Howard, Yao, Randolph, Chandler? This ratio means nothing. Seriously. Because Daly blocks tons of shots, but can't pass well or steal much, he is considered better than Dwight Howard?? No.

Furthermore, Z-Bo's number is lower because he doesn't block shots, which Daly does, so in terms of a compliment to a player, Daly is a very good one to Z. Randolph.

I am not completely sure what those numbers mean but for Zach Randolph to have the same ratio as bench players while making $13-15 million dollars is TERRIBLE. Also I know FOR A FACT that your ratio doesn't account for total touches per game and turnovers related to having the ball multiple times per game as a "go to player." Zach gets the ball ALOT and to have a ratio that low in the realm of bench players who are less talented/skilled and don't get the ball much is atrocious!

[Sixercise]

Actually, TGP brings up something legit, because Z-Bo's Roland rating is positive, as hard as it is to believe: http://www.82games.com/0708/0708NYK.HTM

[Sixers24]

Just Say No to Zach Randolph.

[dbodner]

he has averaged 4 out of the last 5 seasons 2 or more assists per game. That is impressive

Not really.

I mean, obviously that buts him behind such big men as kirilenko, diaw, josh smith and odom.

But it also puts him behind top flight scorers as Garnett, Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh and Pau Gasol.

Elton Brand and Jermaine O'Neal average more than that, typically. Heck, Troy Murphy, David West and Shawn Marion beat that.

Yao Ming averages more than that, as does Brad Miller and Boris Diaw. It's eclipsed by Bogut too.

I don't know. "19th best passing big man in the league" isn't quite what I define as impressive.

[phiphan]

Actually, TGP brings up something legit, because Z-Bo's Roland rating is positive, as hard as it is to believe: http://www.82games.com/0708/0708NYK.HTM

holy ****, is Jerome James available?!!

[dbodner]

-= original quote snipped =-



holy ****, is Jerome James available?!!

Him and Shav could be a helluva combo.

In all seriousness, I don't think Randolph's a terrible defender. Not the greatest team defender, but adequate man-man.

[Sixercise]

In all seriousness, I don't think Randolph's a terrible defender. Not the greatest team defender, but adequate man-man.

And dare I say a better defender than Webber in his 05-06 season?

[The Guilty Party]

My point to this thread is to more or less dump some cold water on some fans who seem to believe that we are getting Elton Brand or Emeka Okafor this summer when the odds are that we are going to end up with someone like Zach Randolph instead.

Previous to yesterday when I heard what Portland fans had to say, I thought there was little to no chance of Mo Cheeks and Ed Stefanski making a move for this guy. Now, I think Randolph will be one of the backburner options if/when Brand doesn't leave LA, Charlotte re-signs Okafor, and Atlanta keeps Josh Smith.

[THFM]

im probably gonna get flamed for this but i'd rather have evans then randolph. evans is a better rebounder and his hustle and d is extremely better, zach does have a better offensive game, but that doesn't matter.

[51X3RF4N]

It isn't about 20 and 10...it's about consistency....as i have said before. And sendem...we OBVIOUSLY are not looking for a role player...you say Evans is far better at being a role player...well...we won't win anything with a role playing PF in our current lineup.

And as we are seeing in the NBA, winning is not based on Individual defense, it is team defense that wins games. When has Randolph ever been surrounded by a decent defensive team? Cuz from what I see, it has always been that he was surrounded by selfish offensive minded players who were also thugs.

Maybe a change of scenary to a place like Philly where it is about hustle and good D every night would be beneficial to a guy like that, no?

" Sure he can have plays ran for him and he's capable of scoring the ball off of those plays but if a team is not running plays for him he CAN NOT CONTRIBUTE."

--ooook....why would the Sixers NOT run plays for him? He would automatically be the #1 scoring option.....that doesn't make sense to me.



The ratio is combined assts, steals, and blocks PER turnovers.

It is obviously a good thing to have a higher number, but my point is, does the higher number mean that those players are better NBA players??

No it doesn't. Reggie Evans is barely a starter on most teams in the NBA. Yet his ratio is higher than some really good players. All I was getting as is a response to another poster who made a comment about how Randolph's combined asts, blocks, and steals compared to turnovers was not that great. Nothing to do with you though, so don't take it the wrong way.

Dbods...I was not implying his Assts/game was great....or even good. I'm just saying that he is CONSISTENT in the past 4/5 years to have those numbers AND be a guy who is meant to score in the post and rebound. There aren't many opportunities for those guys to get assists....i would know because that was my specialty all through college. You get the ball in good position, you are expected to score, not pass. That's all I meant by that.

[51X3RF4N]

Just to clarify...

I'm not the biggest Z-Bo fan in the world...but about 4 months ago I was assessing the Sixer's needs. And the answer I kept coming up with in terms of what will get them to the promised land was this:

A PF capable of taking up space on the block, rebounding consistently, scoring more than 15 ppg, and having low-post moves. Not to mention someone who has been around the block a few times and knows the NBA well. Not a rookie. Not another wing, or a point guard. Not someone who just plays D and runs like an athlete. And not someone who jacks up 3's and although makes a bunch, plays the game solely to take 3's, such as KK. So, with that prototype in mind, I began to evaluate some talent in the NBA and in the draft, keeping the fact that a rookie probably won't be good enough right away to win next season. The draft left me with a few choices.

Brooke Lopez. Not ready though.

Love- not ready IMO.

Hans- again, not ready.

In terms of NBA players, there are many. But none are attainable, save for J-Smoove or E. Brand in FA. Randolph, however, intrigued me. I thought of the idea of trading for him long ago in order to make our run this season all the better. So when I saw this thread, I kind of felt as though I needed to explain my school of thought on this matter.

Here is where I stand: I still think he is the TYPE of guy we need to win it all. The other TYPE of guy who might be able to do it is Josh Smith. His freakish athleticism, coupled with his ability to create offense and continue to improve, make him another intriguing prospect. I just thought Randolph, barring issues off the court, would provide the CONSISTENT approach we need to win on a regular basis. That is the key in the NBA. Remember Thad putting up big numbers a few games, and everyone started talking about him. Now they aren't talking as much cuz his numbers went down. They are saying he does the little things, but he is inconsistent with his numbers. Well, I would argue that some games would be more winnable, or would be put out of hand earlier, if he would be more consistently aggressive on the offensive end. Get it?

[The Sixer Fixer]

We got rid of Chris Webber (you know a 20-10 guy) because he was a team cancer. Someone who became a negative influence on a young team. Also, a guy who didn't want to (or was unable to) play defense. A guy who was more concerned about how many touches he got on offense than he was about the team success.

Having said that, why in the world would we want to add a guy who is like a mirror image to the old version of Chris Webber? Especially one who has a contract that will put us in salary cap hell for the next 3-4 years. This guy is more concerned with his social "lifestyle" than he is about being commited to an organization paying him an enormous amount of money. It's just a matter of time before Randolph winds up in prison over his off the court "activities".

If Randolph is our starting PF next year, I think I will need to go find a new team.

[SendEm]

And as we are seeing in the NBA, winning is not based on Individual defense, it is team defense that wins games. When has Randolph ever been surrounded by a decent defensive team? Cuz from what I see, it has always been that he was surrounded by selfish offensive minded players who were also thugs.

The last I've check Randolph IS A "THUG" and the Portland team that GOT RID of him is the same Portland team this year that is filled with high character guys and his trading away has been credited with turningg that franchises culture around.

You CAN'T play good team defense with Randolph because he can't play defense AT ALL. He's an NBA scorer with the defensive effort and ability of an ordinary college athlete.

He's a pretty decent fantasy basketball player if you are looking for points and rebounds but he's a terrible NBA team basketball player, who's just a scorer, just a position rebounder, just a malcontent, and just selfish.

Zach Randolph's entire game was designed to get him into the NBA and land him a HUGE contract when he got there. He has accomplished both already. The book is closed on him as basketball player. Points and Rebounds ARE NOT enough...

[SendEm]

Okay it's obvious most people do not want Zach.

[bebopdeluxe]

51X3:

Good post. Welcome.

I think that my willingness to CONSIDER Randolph has to do with two things: 1) the lack of a clear-cut option in FA (as I assume that Brand doesn't opt-out and Smith, Biedrins, Okafor and others are resigned); and 2) the ability to have the Knicks take back some substantial contract to offset Randolph's salary (i.e. Green and Evans).

Again - if we can find the money and Brand opts-out, that is still option #1...but if we could get Randolph for, say, $5-6 million net a year, I would at least consider it. As dabods said, I wouldn't say that he is a horrific one-on-one defender...and we do have Sammy to provide weak-side help. For me, one of the biggest issues that this team still has - an issue that we will probably see play out in the playoffs against a good defensive team like the Pistons or Celtics - is scoring the ball in the half-court in the guts of the game. If Randolph was on this team, he is a guy that opposing defenses would have to focus on (something that I believe we have in short supply), which would open things up for others.

If you want to argue that somebody like, say Lou Williams can be that guy, that's fine - but if that is the case, then we really don't need to go out to get a PF...because that is where Thad will be playing (along with the two Andre's and Sammy) - right?

Which begs the other question - what is your primary goal in upgrading at PF? Is it to add someone with a low-post game to open up the offense (which Randolph could be a relatively low-cost option)? If that is the case, then guys like Marion and JSmith obviously do not fit the mold. Is it for defense? We seem to have a decent amount of that right now. Rebounding? We seem to be doing a decent job there as well (and Randolph probably won't kill us there).

While I certainly want to pursue all other options first, if the end result this summer is getting Randolph (and getting rid of Green and Evans' contract), I don't know if I would view that as a horrific outcome....particularly if Zack and Mo have a decent relationship.

[SendEm]

Defense wins championships. Offense fills basketball arenas, and provides good basketball forum conversation. I'd rather have a chance at a Championship than a "20 and 10" Randolph and a few more threads per day on Real GM...Randolph = FAILURE!

[The Guilty Party]

Okay it's obvious most people do not want Zach.

You have a real liberal definition of the word "obvious". I just did a quick check and it's 50/50 of people who would take Zach if other options fail and those who want nothing to do with him.

[rswknight]

While I was reading this thread, I googled Z-Bo and here is what came up.

http://hoopshype.com/interviews/randolph_narducci.htm

"Who has been instrumental in helping you get to this point?

ZR: My mother, the lord, coach (Maurice) Cheeks. Coach John Loyer, now an assistant coach for 76ers, guys like that. My second year, coach Loyer came to Marion (Indiana) and spent the summer in the boys club helping me out. Passing me the ball. We did drills. It was a big help to me."

So, after the woman who gave him life and God, Zach Randolph feels that he owes his NBA career to two current Sixer coaches...

As for my take, If acquiring Brand(or Odom) don't work this summer, and you could trade Green, Booth and cap space for him(and maybe a conditional second rounder?). I might really consider it.

[The Guilty Party]

Odom is another player of real interest to me. Last year when there's was talk about him being traded, Odom made some comments that any team trading for him had better be prepared to offer him an extension. Odom has one year left on his deal that pays him around $14MIL.

For me, Odom does a lot of nice things on the court and occasionally has a big game but is he a good fit here? I honestly struggle with that.

Miller
Iguodala
Young
Odom
Dalembert

It's an athletic and versatile lineup but I'm not sure how much I love it. What are your thoughts on this 'cause I think I could be swayed either way.