The Sixer Fixer wrote:
Why Zach Randolph Could Be A Sixer
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bebopdeluxe
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psyko -
You are right - as of right now, we don't really have the $$$ to make Brand whole (unless he would rather take the security of a long-term deal with us than take a chance on what he'll get next summer). He would have to take a $5 mil pay cut to leave La-La-Land...
I would la-la-love to see it...but unless Eddie can move another contract, I'm finding it hard to envision it.
Sixer Fixer:
Thanks for Zach's rap sheet. I think we all know what we would be getting into if we did this...the question is: is it worth the risk?
Eddie seems to have a rep as a bit of a gambler (both in his words and his draft picks)...3 years/$22 mil for a proven NBA commodity who actually likes and respects our coach - perhaps it could be another Moss/Belichek situation?
(I know that I am pushing it)
If you have a realistic Plan B that has a reasonable shot of happening this summer at PF, then I'm all ears. But I don't see Brand, Okafor, JSmith, Biedrins or anybody else shaking loose to be swooped up by our precious cap room.
3 years/$22 million...and no more Wilie Green to boot...
(I like Willie)
If we run into a brick wall everywhere else, I am open to the idea...that is all I'm saying.
You are right - as of right now, we don't really have the $$$ to make Brand whole (unless he would rather take the security of a long-term deal with us than take a chance on what he'll get next summer). He would have to take a $5 mil pay cut to leave La-La-Land...
I would la-la-love to see it...but unless Eddie can move another contract, I'm finding it hard to envision it.
Sixer Fixer:
Thanks for Zach's rap sheet. I think we all know what we would be getting into if we did this...the question is: is it worth the risk?
Eddie seems to have a rep as a bit of a gambler (both in his words and his draft picks)...3 years/$22 mil for a proven NBA commodity who actually likes and respects our coach - perhaps it could be another Moss/Belichek situation?
(I know that I am pushing it)
If you have a realistic Plan B that has a reasonable shot of happening this summer at PF, then I'm all ears. But I don't see Brand, Okafor, JSmith, Biedrins or anybody else shaking loose to be swooped up by our precious cap room.
3 years/$22 million...and no more Wilie Green to boot...
(I like Willie)
If we run into a brick wall everywhere else, I am open to the idea...that is all I'm saying.
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psykosacul
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are you sure about that salary info? i was under the impression that they traded kyle so that they could sign a "max contract". by your estimations we only have 11 mill under the cap? hoopshype has our cap next year at 34 mill and i think the cap is a little over 50 correct? that would give us 16 mill to sign players no?
"get that hippy crap out of here." - the standford standout
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tk76
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Zach is more like 3yr/48M, but who's counting.
As for brand, if he demanded a trade he could opt out and get a sign and trade for 5yr/80M, which would be much more job security than the one year 17M he has left.
5yr/80M averages at 16M/year (not much of a pay cut) and it starts at 13M next season (Same as Howards Max deal.) That would mean our 10M cap space + Willie Green. I assume we would have to throw in some 1st round picks (2009 #1 + Utah's #1)
That would give the Cliipers the going rate for a star that demands a trade- 2 #1's and cap space. Brand would get 80M, and we would get a great PF from age 29-34- so a bit risky. I guess at least the last year we could trade him away as a valuable large expiring.
This scenario works- except Brand would have to force the Clipper's hands by demanding a trade (or they lose him for nothing next year.) Unfortunately, Brand has stated he wants to remain a Clipper.
As for brand, if he demanded a trade he could opt out and get a sign and trade for 5yr/80M, which would be much more job security than the one year 17M he has left.
5yr/80M averages at 16M/year (not much of a pay cut) and it starts at 13M next season (Same as Howards Max deal.) That would mean our 10M cap space + Willie Green. I assume we would have to throw in some 1st round picks (2009 #1 + Utah's #1)
That would give the Cliipers the going rate for a star that demands a trade- 2 #1's and cap space. Brand would get 80M, and we would get a great PF from age 29-34- so a bit risky. I guess at least the last year we could trade him away as a valuable large expiring.
This scenario works- except Brand would have to force the Clipper's hands by demanding a trade (or they lose him for nothing next year.) Unfortunately, Brand has stated he wants to remain a Clipper.
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tk76
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bebopdeluxe
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tk:
Yes - Randolph is 3 years/$48 mil...but in my scenario, we are trading back 3 years/$26 mil (Green and EVans' salary)...so it is 3 years/$22 mil net. If we do a UFA or RFA, it is ALL contract - unless we do a S&T (and I don't see teams like GS or Atlanta taking Willie Green back in a S&T for JSmith or Biedrins).
Yes - Randolph is 3 years/$48 mil...but in my scenario, we are trading back 3 years/$26 mil (Green and EVans' salary)...so it is 3 years/$22 mil net. If we do a UFA or RFA, it is ALL contract - unless we do a S&T (and I don't see teams like GS or Atlanta taking Willie Green back in a S&T for JSmith or Biedrins).
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The Sixer Fixer
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bebopdeluxe wrote:
Sixer Fixer:
Thanks for Zach's rap sheet. I think we all know what we would be getting into if we did this...the question is: is it worth the risk?
For me, it might be worth it if the player was on a short term deal. Zach is not. Also, maybe if the player only made 7 mill/yr it's a worthwhile risk. Zach will make 2 times that initially and about 2.5 times that by the end of his deal. The risk far outweighs the reward in my opinion. This is one of those acquisitions that could set this franchise back 4-5 years. We are on the right path with bringing in high charater guys, lets not deviate from that!
The Moss comparison isn't really fair. The Pats risk was minimal. Moss originally only had a 1 yr deal and he was a bargain based on the numbers he had put up over his career.
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psykosacul
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i was never clear on the whole "cap hold" issue. i thought you could sign a FA before signing your own guy and then go over the cap number with your own player because of bird rights. i didnt realize they place a phantom number on that player in light of the fact that you could retain him
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bebopdeluxe
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Sixer FIxer:
Don't forget that we are getting out of $26 million in salaries in this deal (in Green and Evans). I would not pay Randolph $16 mil/year for 3 seasons...but with the offsetting salaries, it will be less than half that.
It is clearly a risk, but this guy is just one year removed from a 23.6/10.0 season (shooting 82% from the line to boot). This team is not the "Jailblazers"...it's not the Knicks....it's a team that has a hard-working personality, with a coach that he respects like no other and leaders like Iguodala and Miller who will set the right tone.
Maybe Zack wants to put the freakshow in the rear-view mirror and win some games, you know?
High risk? Yup.
High reward? Maybe.
If you have a better option that can happen, I am open to it.
Don't forget that we are getting out of $26 million in salaries in this deal (in Green and Evans). I would not pay Randolph $16 mil/year for 3 seasons...but with the offsetting salaries, it will be less than half that.
It is clearly a risk, but this guy is just one year removed from a 23.6/10.0 season (shooting 82% from the line to boot). This team is not the "Jailblazers"...it's not the Knicks....it's a team that has a hard-working personality, with a coach that he respects like no other and leaders like Iguodala and Miller who will set the right tone.
Maybe Zack wants to put the freakshow in the rear-view mirror and win some games, you know?
High risk? Yup.
High reward? Maybe.
If you have a better option that can happen, I am open to it.
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bebopdeluxe
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Chris Webber was 32 when we got him and he was DONE.
Randolph is 26 and he won't whine and say "I don't do that anymore" if you ask him to bang down low.
Honestly, it feels a bit ridiculous to be arguing so strenuously for Zach Randolph, but for what it would cost us, it is an interesting fallback option if we can't get Brand, Okafor or Smith. We get rid of Green (which should be reason enough for most of the board to be down with this deal), get a legit low-post threat and STILL have $5-6 mil to shop with this summer to further upgrade the bench or extend Miller.
I think I'm pretty tapped out here.
Randolph is 26 and he won't whine and say "I don't do that anymore" if you ask him to bang down low.
Honestly, it feels a bit ridiculous to be arguing so strenuously for Zach Randolph, but for what it would cost us, it is an interesting fallback option if we can't get Brand, Okafor or Smith. We get rid of Green (which should be reason enough for most of the board to be down with this deal), get a legit low-post threat and STILL have $5-6 mil to shop with this summer to further upgrade the bench or extend Miller.
I think I'm pretty tapped out here.
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bebopdeluxe
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Explosions:
Look - I would love Brand, too...but why is he gonna take a $5 mil pay cut to leave LA?
If he's willing to do that, then f*ck Zach....OK?
I'm all for drinking Kool-Aid around here, but unless we come up with some more scratch, I don't see Brand in a Sixers uni....and even if we DID come up with the $$$, what makes you think he'll leave LA?
Look - I would love Brand, too...but why is he gonna take a $5 mil pay cut to leave LA?
If he's willing to do that, then f*ck Zach....OK?
I'm all for drinking Kool-Aid around here, but unless we come up with some more scratch, I don't see Brand in a Sixers uni....and even if we DID come up with the $$$, what makes you think he'll leave LA?
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Fire BK
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Pass on Z-Bo all the way.
I'm confident in saying there is NO chance Eddie brings in Zach Randolph.
Interesting idea, and engaging thread.
But this team is rising with defense, hustle and fast break points. These qualities are the antithesis of Zach Randolph's game. Granted, we need a low-post presence badly. But a one-dimensional scorer, who can't block a shot and doesn't play a lick of D? For that price? No way.
No chance on god's green earth that Eddie acquires Z-Bo. It's not just that his game is limited. It's not just that his attitude is questionable. It's his price-tag. This issue comes down to dollars$. Adding Z-Bo suddenly cap-straps this team. You lose all the flexibility that took painstaking years to develop. For what? A mediocre PF who doesn't put you over the top.
Eddie clearly said that if the right guy doesn't come along this year, he'll wait til summer 09 to spend the cap space (hello, Paul Millsap). Z-Bo is not the right guy. Not at that price. So if Brand or Okafor does not materialize, look for Eddie to use the draft to acquire a PF via trade (Kevin Love). Otherwise, wait until next year because Eddie's in no rush to blow this team up.
And please, can we just stop with Josh Smith already? He's NOT an NBA PF in the banger-mold. You want a gumby-athletic, lengthy-lefty, face-up, big SF? He's already wearing #21 on your Sixers.
I'm confident in saying there is NO chance Eddie brings in Zach Randolph.
Interesting idea, and engaging thread.
But this team is rising with defense, hustle and fast break points. These qualities are the antithesis of Zach Randolph's game. Granted, we need a low-post presence badly. But a one-dimensional scorer, who can't block a shot and doesn't play a lick of D? For that price? No way.
No chance on god's green earth that Eddie acquires Z-Bo. It's not just that his game is limited. It's not just that his attitude is questionable. It's his price-tag. This issue comes down to dollars$. Adding Z-Bo suddenly cap-straps this team. You lose all the flexibility that took painstaking years to develop. For what? A mediocre PF who doesn't put you over the top.
Eddie clearly said that if the right guy doesn't come along this year, he'll wait til summer 09 to spend the cap space (hello, Paul Millsap). Z-Bo is not the right guy. Not at that price. So if Brand or Okafor does not materialize, look for Eddie to use the draft to acquire a PF via trade (Kevin Love). Otherwise, wait until next year because Eddie's in no rush to blow this team up.
And please, can we just stop with Josh Smith already? He's NOT an NBA PF in the banger-mold. You want a gumby-athletic, lengthy-lefty, face-up, big SF? He's already wearing #21 on your Sixers.
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bebopdeluxe
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Fire BK:
I'm OK with waiting until '09 to spend money...the only downside I see there is if you are going to keep Miller around, not doing anything meaningful on the personnel front may be wasting one of the 3-4 quality years that Miller has left (and it may not help us get him signed to an extension - something that may not mean a lot to you, but it does mean a lot to me).
I'm OK with waiting until '09 to spend money...the only downside I see there is if you are going to keep Miller around, not doing anything meaningful on the personnel front may be wasting one of the 3-4 quality years that Miller has left (and it may not help us get him signed to an extension - something that may not mean a lot to you, but it does mean a lot to me).
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Wilfried
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Randolph? No way please. Everybody knows why.
If we're not getting Brand (obvious) and we're not out on Okafor (is he worth much money, can he be a factor in a run-and-gun-type of offense, can he stay healthy, ...) I'm considering taking a good look at Josh Smith.
He can be a nice PF in our young, running team.
My only questions are:
- how about his inside scoring (back to the basket)?
- is his D ok or overrated by his stats?
If we're not getting Brand (obvious) and we're not out on Okafor (is he worth much money, can he be a factor in a run-and-gun-type of offense, can he stay healthy, ...) I'm considering taking a good look at Josh Smith.
He can be a nice PF in our young, running team.
My only questions are:
- how about his inside scoring (back to the basket)?
- is his D ok or overrated by his stats?