Why do people care about minutes pla

[Cookin Baskets]

I understand the post, most people have to work 40-50 hour weeks just to stay afloat and I think its proven players that rest play better in the postseason, hey I think thats how the Spurs won 4 titles in 9 years, and the players just play better for the team. NBA players are human they get tired from all practice,the air travel to different time zones,distractions,media.

..and yea but games are usually longer then exactly 48 minutes with clock stopping,timeouts,etc. plus the intensity there humans and its not just pshyical its mental from all the pressure from the media,fans.

[MyInsatiableOne]

I agreed with the original premise...the presentation of the argument was a little kooky is all.

To use an analogy, I'm also not a fan at all of pitch counts in baseball, which I think have ruined starting pitching. Guys back in the day would throw 7-9 innings on a regular basis with no counts and were fine. Today's pitchers go 5-6 innings, 100 pitches, and get hurt all the time!

[Cookin Baskets]

I agreed with the original premise...the presentation of the argument was a little kooky is all.

To use an analogy, I'm also not a fan at all of pitch counts in baseball, which I think have ruined starting pitching. Guys back in the day would throw 7-9 innings on a regular basis with no counts and were fine. Today's pitchers go 5-6 innings, 100 pitches, and get hurt all the time!

maybe people aren't just healthy as they used to be back in the day.

[tombattor]

I agreed with the original premise...the presentation of the argument was a little kooky is all.

To use an analogy, I'm also not a fan at all of pitch counts in baseball, which I think have ruined starting pitching. Guys back in the day would throw 7-9 innings on a regular basis with no counts and were fine. Today's pitchers go 5-6 innings, 100 pitches, and get hurt all the time!

You are wrong brother.

There is a reason pitchers can pitch a lot longer than they did in the past. Part of it is improved medicine. Part of it is exactly what you hate, pitch count. Yes, it's true that a lot of pitchers are babied these days, but that's not without reason. There have been a lot of examples of pitchers who throw too many innings early in their careers that flame out early. The only reason you don't know about them is because that doesn't just happen to HOF pitchers, but also a lot of borderline and average pitchers too.

I'm sure you know, but baseball is all about pitching. Before all the scouting, weight training, etc., not every hitter was able to all hit the ball out of the park. For example, when Babe Ruth was the king, he was hitting more home runs than about half the teams. Now, even the smallest back up middle infielders can hit it out if you make a mistake. Therefore, if your starting pitcher's main weapon is his mid-90 heater, then he can't get by throwing high-80s heater in the 8th inning with your arm tiring and the pitch count at 135.

Over the years, there have been numerous advancements made by weight training and better nutrients for hitters. They can hit the ball harder. However, the pitchers aren't throwing 120 mph now vs. 90 mph 50 years ago. They were throwing 90s then and now.

Therefore, while it is frustrating to see a pitcher come out in the 7th inning of a 1-0 game, when he's on, it's with good reason. As important as pitching is in baseball, you need to make sure the ones you have that are good will still be good for years to come. Not flame out after a few years.

[atsoc711]

If this were a couple of months ago, I would agree with you, but since I started ballin' up around that time, I disagree with you. If I had to play back to back nights all of the time like NBA players do, I wouldn't be able to give the same effort every night. Trust me, these guys get winded!

[MyInsatiableOne]

-= original quote snipped =-


You are wrong brother.

There is a reason pitchers can pitch a lot longer than they did in the past. Part of it is improved medicine. Part of it is exactly what you hate, pitch count. Yes, it's true that a lot of pitchers are babied these days, but that's not without reason. There have been a lot of examples of pitchers who throw too many innings early in their careers that flame out early. The only reason you don't know about them is because that doesn't just happen to HOF pitchers, but also a lot of borderline and average pitchers too.

I'm sure you know, but baseball is all about pitching. Before all the scouting, weight training, etc., not every hitter was able to all hit the ball out of the park. For example, when Babe Ruth was the king, he was hitting more home runs than about half the teams. Now, even the smallest back up middle infielders can hit it out if you make a mistake. Therefore, if your starting pitcher's main weapon is his mid-90 heater, then he can't get by throwing high-80s heater in the 8th inning with your arm tiring and the pitch count at 135.

Over the years, there have been numerous advancements made by weight training and better nutrients for hitters. They can hit the ball harder. However, the pitchers aren't throwing 120 mph now vs. 90 mph 50 years ago. They were throwing 90s then and now.

Therefore, while it is frustrating to see a pitcher come out in the 7th inning of a 1-0 game, when he's on, it's with good reason. As important as pitching is in baseball, you need to make sure the ones you have that are good will still be good for years to come. Not flame out after a few years.

Dude, you completely missed my point. My whole point was back in the day most pitchers had rubber arms and pitched 7,8,9 innings, threw as many pitches as were necessary, they had smaller rotations (4 man vs 5), the season wasn't stretched out as long (fewer off days), etc and those guys put up better numbers and lasted just as long. Now you have guys like Kerry Wood and Mark Prior and Pedro and Zambrano, among other stars (as well as lesser pitchers) who are babied from Jr High to MLB and always get hurt! THAT'S what frustrates me.

In the NBA they haven't gone to this extreme...guys that log a lot of minutes usually do so cos they are the best on their team and they are in good enough shape/condition to do so.

Man, guys like Havlicek and Cowens would freak people out on this board if they played today!

[tombattor]

MyInsatiableOne, I know what you are saying.

But the guys you've mentioned don't really support your case. For example, Pedro is being babied now because after his arm injury, he's lost some of effectiveness with more work. When he was GOD, he had no pitch count. As he got older and more mileage was put on his arm, he just wore down. Actually, there was that classic stat Grady ignored about Pedro and his pitching effectiveness after 100 pitches when he failed to take him out in 2003 ALCS game 7. Just like anything else, as you get older, you need more rest because it takes longer for your body to recover.

Guys like Prior is a prime example of players being burnt out too early. When he came up, people thought that he can handle the workload because of his outstanding mechanics and Dusty Baker, who is known to work his young pitchers into the ground, used Prior like a cheap donkey and caused him to have all those arm troubles.

I don't know. Maybe you are right and my examples are just random coincidences, but I tend to think that with better science and medicine, the teams have a better understanding of what makes the players last longer. And I also think in general, players play longer now than back in the days. But who knows...

[MyInsatiableOne]

tombattor,

I can see your point as well. There is probably no clear cut yes-or-no example to support 100% either side. It just seems that in baseball, up to the mid to late 1990s, guys pitched more and seemed to do just fine. I mean you routinely had guys in 4 man rotations winning 20-30 games, high strikeout totals, etc. Now it's an event when 1 guys in the whole LEAGUE wins 20.

And in the NBA, I don't think minutes played has dictated the game and the players the way pitch counts have in baseball. Iverson still logs a ton of minutes and is in his 12th year and is still effective. While I like to see the guys on the C's get some rest before the playoffs, I don't think it's a crisis like some on this board do