Miller is the 2nd best PG in the East

[ITK9]

I knew all along that Iggy didn't write it. Iggy is a #3 and it was OBVIOUS that a #1 had written it. lols

imo he is a good role player of the bench

[76erinSJ]

Sendem isnt even a good role player. Hes Chris Duhon lol. Im pretty sure his favorite team is Allen Iverson uhh I mean the Denver Nuggets lol.

[sixers_610]

I wouldn't take Arenas over Miller. Miller is truly one of those players that makes the team better. Arenas is someone that can dominate a game as well, and as a talent, he is phenomenal.

[freshie2]

Arenas doesn't really play the point, does he? Kind of like Iverson. They are both undersized gunn...I mean scorers.

[noone]

I wouldn't take Arenas over Miller. Miller is truly one of those players that makes the team better. Arenas is someone that can dominate a game as well, and as a talent, he is phenomenal.

Miller is having a great season, possibly even the best of his career, but boy do people overrate him on this board. The guy hasn't even been past the first round of the playoffs. Hell, he hasn't even been to a game 6 in the first round. To top it off he's been on 4 teams in his 9 year career. He's great for not so good teams in the regular season. He really hurts you in the playoffs. Give me Arenas any day of the week, for any team in the league.

[tk76]

I can't say Arenas (who is a star) isn't better than Miller. Same thing with AI and Miller.

However, Miller is a better fit for this team, and the rest of the team would be more passive if Arenas or AI were here. Thats not a shot at AI or Gil, they just should be teamed up with more experienced players and not be teamed up with a bunch of high energy kids who are just breaking into the league.

I can't see how you would think Miller hurts this Sixer team in the playoffs, given that he's been our MVP, and we would be swept out of any playoff matchup if we don't have Miller running the show. Even his post-up game is critical to our playoff chances. Losing Miller in the post would be like the Sours trying to run their offense without Duncan.

[noone]

The lack of his ability to hit the 3 point shot will hurt us just like it did Denver the last 3 years, and teams will exploit it. Now I'm not sure exactly what his role was on those Denver teams or if his role was hurt when teams slowed down the offense, but I definitely see that as a problem for this team going into the playoffs, which is exactly why I said he's a great regular season player, not so much playoff player. The fact that he isn't the fastest player and his range is limited hurts him moreso than most good to great PGs when shifting from a full court to half court offense, which is what you should expect in the playoffs.

I'm not sure if that was made very clear, so I'll give an example. If teams were to slow the pace of the game down against us in the playoffs, if we had say Nash, Williams, Paul instead of Miller, it wouldn't hurt us as much because those guys are quicker (i.e. better at beating their man off the dribble, getting into the paint, and creating) and have much more range on their jump shots (i.e. teams won't lag off as much against them as they will Miller). The ability to shoot from the 3 and having quickness are very important to have in your PG. The fact that Miller doesn't have either will hurt now, and has hurt (Denver) in the past.

edit: I also understand that losing a player like Miller and substituting him with Arenas would completely change the way the team play, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The style would change, but the team would be better in the long run simply due to the fact that Arenas is a much better player. And Miller's time here is limited. He's getting older and won't be around when Iguodala and Thad reach their primes, so eventually the style will have to change, so to me that really isn't a big concern. I know this whole Arenas vs. Miller thing is all hypothetical, but it'd be (the style change) better sooner than later.

[tk76]

I agree that Miller's lack of range hurt them in the playoffs. Melo would draw a double team, and Miller could not spot up for the jumper. Denver fans have commented on this on their board at RealGM.

However, Miller has a different role here. He is our low post scorer, and one of the most consistant scorers in the half court (shooting nearly 50% and getting most of his points in the half court offense.)

I don't see how Miller would be less effective posting up in the playoffs unless their is an unfavorable match-up (Billups.) He should still be able to take the PG's for Boston, Orlando and Cleveland in the post, and might become even more critical if the game does slow down.

Also, he is a pass ahead PG on the break, and that kind of running still works in the playoffs. You can't dribble it end to end (like Iguodala does) as easily with people hustling back, but it is harder to get back against great passing.

[noone]

I agree. Miller has played pretty well himself in the half court. But what about when other players have the ball? You can't have Miller posting up being the go-to weapon. That's far too easy to take away with the lack of shooters. And what happens when/if Miller goes up against Detroit (the team many fans are giving the Sixers the best chance against) and Billups. Miller won't be able to post Billups up very effectively, so Miller's use diminishes and other players are going to have to step it up. But again, that half court offense with little to no players to spread the floor will make it tough for players like Iguodala and Williams. And Miller is a huge problem in that. Having two big men (Sammy and Evans) that can't spread the floor is one thing, but adding to that a PG doesn't help the issue at all. It's no coincidence that the Sixers have struggled in the halfcourt. Imagine a team taking Miller's post up away.

I'll agree though that because of his different role here than on other teams, he may not hurt the Sixers as much as he did say the Nuggets, but I think he will be a big part of the Sixers struggling offensively in the playoffs.

And no matter what kind of player Miller is on the break. If the opposing team gets (and they will) 3 guys down the court after a shot (not turnovers) before the ball gets there, there will be no fast break.

Anyways, I think the fact we're having this debate only strengthens my original statement. Having Arenas on the team in place of Miller, we really wouldn't have any issues to worry about in Arenas' regular season performance translating to the playoffs. Therefore, as good as the team may seem/be with Miller in the regular season, this team, or any team for that matter, would benefit far more having Arenas on the roster in the playoffs as opposed to Miller.

[Cookin Baskets]

Andre Miller has been great for philly and has lead them to the playoffs sooner then expected. I have two questions though?

One, why can't miller develop a three point shot and 2 why isn't his assist numbers higher then 6.9 apg, everytime i see him play now he will get 8-10 assists...but his numbers stay the same as far as assists go.

He is a point guard i dont see why not in the next offseason or so he can develop a three pt. shot unless its just too late in his carrer. It would really make an elite point guard with the likes of Nash,Kidd,Paul,etc.

[dond]

Andre Miller has been great for philly and has lead them to the playoffs sooner then expected. I have two questions though?

One, why can't miller develop a three point shot and 2 why isn't his assist numbers higher then 6.9 apg, everytime i see him play now he will get 8-10 assists...but his numbers stay the same as far as assists go.

He is a point guard i dont see why not in the next offseason or so he can develop a three pt. shot unless its just too late in his carrer. It would really make an elite point guard with the likes of Nash,Kidd,Paul,etc.

Well, I don't know how much you have seen of Andre Miller ... but if you have seen him shoot free throws ... that should tell you why he can't develop a 3pt shot. He flicks the ball at the basket with his right hand and his left hand is involved too much. He gets away with that with short jump shots and is, in fact, very effective with it. However, his shot is too flat for a long range shot be be effective.

BTW ... I have no idea why this topic even came up. A point guard that is a good 3pt shooter may be nice but certainly not a prerequisite for being successful. The Sixers could use a 3pt shooter but it doesn't have to be Andre Miller.

[tk76]

Guys who have no arc on their shot (and shoot with wrists only without using their legs) have limited range. It would be like trying to extend the range of a finger roll or hook shot out to 15 feet, the mechanics just aren't there.

Lou also has a somewhat flat shot- which he has worked with Mark Price to fix. When he puts some arc on the ball his 3 gets more effective.

As for Noone- it is sad that its so rare to discuss a point with someone without either person saying something outrageous or insulting. You make some good points, although I think it points to the teams overall weaknesses as much as any specific deficiencies of Miller. I'm glad we are at least going to see some playoff basketball, and it will be interesting to see how the players respond to the pressure.

DeOgar- Millers assist numbers are down because he lacks great 1/2 court weapons to pass it to (like a pure shooter at SG or a legit low post threat) and because he has been filling the role as a scoring guard much of the time.

[sec-106]

other than Billups there isn't another PG in the East that I would say is better than Miller.

[Cookin Baskets]

-= original quote snipped =-



Well, I don't know how much you have seen of Andre Miller ... but if you have seen him shoot free throws ... that should tell you why he can't develop a 3pt shot. He flicks the ball at the basket with his right hand and his left hand is involved too much. He gets away with that with short jump shots and is, in fact, very effective with it. However, his shot is too flat for a long range shot be be effective.

BTW ... I have no idea why this topic even came up. A point guard that is a good 3pt shooter may be nice but certainly not a prerequisite for being successful. The Sixers could use a 3pt shooter but it doesn't have to be Andre Miller.

I can tell yea, I watch the 76ers alot. Its just weird for a point guard as good as Miller not develop some sort of three point shot, but is a very good mid range shooter and good post up player for his size.

No way this offseason he could develop a way to arch it on three pt. or develop a new shot, just maybe??

It would be a great arsenial to his game, and Yea he doesn't have that many shooters to pass which is a good point you brought up. He is almost like a Power Forward in a point guard's body who can hit short range jumpers and score in the post. Also to mention I won't argue he defintley is the 2nd best point guard,maybe you can argue Bibby is better but not this season.

[tk76]

He wouldn't be the first older guard with an ugly jumper to start hitting some threes later on his career, but I don't see it happening.

Miller's game is all about efficiency and making the best choices, and unless he got really good at it, a three point shot would not fit into his style of play.

[bruno sundov]

I say it goes.

Arenas
Billups
Rondo
Bibby
Miller

[tk76]

It must be great to be Rondo. You are a young PG with talent but limitted skills, and people can ignore all of your shortcomings because you play next to 3 stars who have the ball in their hands all of the time.

I'm sure if Rondo was trying to play PG on a lesser team (lets say Seattle) he would be exposed for his lack of experience, limitted range, underdeveloped floor general skills, limitted ability to create his own shot, limitted court vision, etc...

Boston doesn't ask him to do very much, and he is a talented kid, who might grow into a very good point guard... eventually.

You put Lou Williams in Rondo's place, and Boston fan's would anoint him as the next gerald green c.2006.

[bruno sundov]

YOu re right Rondo has 3 all stars to pass the ball to. He also has the task of keeping these guys happy. He plays lights out defense. Miller doesn't play lights out D. Rondo just gets a little better every game. He will hopefully start drainning that 18' within the next year.

[tk76]

I guess I'm being a bit unfair. On the flip side he could be an excellent PG, and probably wouldn't get credit since he's asked to play a limintted role. I wasnted to Sixers to nab him in the draft (was really impressed by his steal and rebound numbers in college), and he lcould be a top PG in a few years as the 3 stars are starting to show their age. i'm just not ready to put him in the same sentence as Miller right now.

The C's don't need a pg who does what Miller does (control a game/run the team/post up lile a mini-McHale). On the flip side, no way would Rondo be as valuable for the Sixers right now as Miller is (their MVP in their recent 20-7 run.)

[IggyTheBEaST]

-= original quote snipped =-



Well, I don't know how much you have seen of Andre Miller ... but if you have seen him shoot free throws ... that should tell you why he can't develop a 3pt shot. He flicks the ball at the basket with his right hand and his left hand is involved too much. He gets away with that with short jump shots and is, in fact, very effective with it. However, his shot is too flat for a long range shot be be effective.

BTW ... I have no idea why this topic even came up. A point guard that is a good 3pt shooter may be nice but certainly not a prerequisite for being successful. The Sixers could use a 3pt shooter but it doesn't have to be Andre Miller.

exactly, no way miller developes a 3pt shot at this point. And as far as the assists go; he started off the season not averaging many assists, he mainly acted as a sg with good passing skills but then he stepped up his game and started droppin dimes, however, its hard to up your averages with 70 games under your belt. 1 10+ assist game, or even 10 for that matter, wont make much of a dent.