MVP Watch 2008... Part4.

[Tesla]

^ Nice list and commentary tkb. Mine is the same, although I have KG at 4th and Nash probably 5th.

Basically, I'm pretty close to as big as a Kobe fan as there is, but I try to stay as objective as possible. Barring any seriously crazy individual performances, or other strange things happening, My MVP is who ends up with the better record between Paul and Kobe. To me its one of those two guys, and right now, since Paul's Hornets have a better record, he would be my MVP.

The thing is though.. when are votes cast? Are they cast right at the end of the season? IIRC I think some of the votes are cast with some games left in the regular season, which I think shouldn't happen (especially in such a close race).


EDIT: Whoops, I meant to say KG 4th, and Nash 5th. Lebron is my 3rd right nwo.

[Doctor MJ]

tkb's list is great. He said a lot of what I would have said had I posted first (plus some nice additional detail). But briefly what comes to mind for me:

1. Paul

He's just undeniable really. To me the clincher really is how lights out he's been as the season has reached crunch time. He still needs to keep it up to hold Kobe off though.

A con? Well, it forced to say something, it would be that he gets too much credit for his teammates' success at times. I don't care how good Paul is, he doesn't have this team success without other good guys.

2. Kobe

Deserves the MVP, just not over Paul. The guy has had every kind of road block throw in his path this year, and his team is still in the elite range. I can see great arguments that it was tougher for him to lead his team where it is given those injuries, than it was for Paul to lead West, Peja, Tyson, etc to where they are. Unfortunately for Kobe, Paul's work is just so without flaw, I've got no basis to swap them based on that conjecture.

Con? I'll refrain all together. I've been in the anti-Kobe camp so many times that this time I'd really like to be trumpeting Kobe's case. Oh well.

3. LeBron

Aside from the anomaly that is Paul (which we'll have to see what happens with), LeBron showed me this year that he's still growing, and that he's reached a point where I'd be comfortable calling him the best in the game.

The indisputable killer for his candidacy for me is the time he missed. Not that he was eliminated when he missed those games, but the candidates above him have turned out so strong that that's too much to over come. Beyond that I have to express reluctance considering somebody whose team has been so unimpressive for MVP. A worthy comeback to this is how bad Cleveland looked without him however.

4. Nash

To be honest I could see dropping a bit further than this, but at this point he's holding out. The main thing holding him back is that year just doesn't feel that great. You can't knock him on any individual tangible level as he's still doing his thing, but he is someone who is tough to see as MVP if his team looks like a first round exit.

5. Howard

I'm starting to think he's underrated. I just saw a writer give Amare the first team nod over him. How on earth is that possible? 9 times out of 10 the best player in any comparison is the 2-way superstar big man. We've only got 1 of those in the entire league, and it sure ain't Amare.

Con? Like LeBron, his team success just ain't that good.

[drza]

I've been doing articles on the MVP candidates for the past few weeks, and over the last week I've started a couple of blogs with more concise arguments for each.

Here is the link to my arguments for LeBron and Chris Paul.

http://www.rotowire.com/blogs/viewcomments.htm?id=1798

Here is the link to my arguments for Kobe and KG.

http://www.rotowire.com/blogs/viewcomments.htm?id=1828

The blogs have more details on my reasoning but don't have a final rank order (it's just my arguments for each, not a final decision). My actual order as of today (subject to change by end of year) would be:

1. Garnett (strong individual impact, leading historically good team. History of MVP vote on his side)

2. Paul (One of better point guard seasons in a long time, good team success. Becoming favorite in media)

3) Kobe (Best individual 2-way player in the NBA, good team success. Was media favorite last week, could move back up if Lakers catch Hornets)

4) LeBron (Outstanding accomplishments, but lack of team success hurts)

[Ming Kong!]

Williams received chants of MVP last night. Doesn't happen in Utah these days. This year he's obviously not a top 5 contender, but he's right outside that bubble, and next year he might very well be in the top 5.

[Doctor MJ]

Regarding Garnett, he is rising in my list again, but his candidacy was killed by how well the team did without him.

[Manhattan Project]

I think at this point its useless adding the fourth and fifth candidates, Its clearly only three players in this race. Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. What these three have done for the game this year has made basketball so much fun this year. On top of that Paul and Kobe are doing this in midst of the tightest race in history, its nothing short of breathtaking. What Kobe and LeBron have done this year is amazing, but Paul has elevated his game in the past few weeks. I feel bad for Kobe because he does deserve an MVP but I cant see him getting the nod over Paul this year. LeBron's time will come eventually, I mean its amazing he keeps improving every year.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

Kenny Smith has picked Kobe over Paul...his reasoning is that Paul has only done it for the 2nd half. He and his team were only good, not great for the 1st half....while the Lakers have stayed consistent the whole year.

I think all this in depth analysis in this thread...voters are not gonna think that far...im hearing peoples pick MVPs , but the reasons are so bad.

People that pick Paul say he has turned West into an All-Star..West is an All-star with or without Paul. Theres some more i dont feel like typing.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

Kenny Smith has picked Kobe over Paul...his reasoning is that Paul has only done it for the 2nd half. He and his team were only good, not great for the 1st half....while the Lakers have stayed consistent the whole year.

Agreed. Paul has done it the whole season. He's just done it better as the season is ending. That's a pro, not a con.

I think all this in depth analysis in this thread...voters are not gonna think that far...im hearing peoples pick MVPs , but the reasons are so bad.

Totally agreed.

People that pick Paul say he has turned West into an All-Star..West is an All-star with or without Paul. Theres some more i dont feel like typing.

Totally agreed. Kobe's injury issues are another. The dude has had a quality big man for most of the season, that's about as far as anyone is gonna bother to look.

[Doctor MJ]

Kenny Smith has picked Kobe over Paul...his reasoning is that Paul has only done it for the 2nd half. He and his team were only good, not great for the 1st half....while the Lakers have stayed consistent the whole year.

I think all this in depth analysis in this thread...voters are not gonna think that far...im hearing peoples pick MVPs , but the reasons are so bad.

People that pick Paul say he has turned West into an All-Star..West is an All-star with or without Paul. Theres some more i dont feel like typing.

Good god that man's fool. After 41 games, the Hornets had a 2 game lead on the Lakers. The Lakers have actually made up a half a game in the second half.

That's the aggrevating stuff, when you hear a talking head say something that just indicates that they either haven't been paying close attention or came up with their conclusion first and then tried to find an explanation for it.

[Doctor MJ]

One thing I don't think anyone's mentioned: I believe that if Paul wins the MVP, he'll be the youngest MVP in history. Heady stuff that.

[og15]

Kenny Smith has picked Kobe over Paul...his reasoning is that Paul has only done it for the 2nd half. He and his team were only good, not great for the 1st half....while the Lakers have stayed consistent the whole year.

I think all this in depth analysis in this thread...voters are not gonna think that far...im hearing peoples pick MVPs , but the reasons are so bad.

People that pick Paul say he has turned West into an All-Star..West is an All-star with or without Paul. Theres some more i dont feel like typing.

...and I pick Paul because Kobe's team has only been elite when he had an elite looking roster on the floor, outside of that it hasn't been elite, so he doesn't deserve MVP. , that makes a lot of sense. Kenny Smith is cool, but that's some poor reasoning especially since the Hornets were ahead of the Lakers after the first half of the season.

[big123]

-= original quote snipped =-


...and I pick Paul because Kobe's team has only been elite when he had an elite looking roster on the floor, outside of that it hasn't been elite, so he doesn't deserve MVP. , that makes a lot of sense. Kenny Smith is cool, but that's some poor reasoning especially since the Hornets were ahead of the Lakers after the first half of the season.

I agree. Paul still IMO. The Lakers were getting better when Bynum was emerging, but still weren't elite. They didn't start rolling and becoming elite until Gasol was stolen and Odom stepped up his game. The Lakers bench is also one of the best in the league and Phil is a great coach. Kobe does his thing and is a big part of their success, but he's really not doing anything extraordinary, he's just being Kobe that we all know and love. To say the Lakers are where they are strictly because of Kobe is a little much IMO.

[shobe_81]

Ok can anyone make a case as to why Kobe isn't deserving of MVP?

I could give it to Kobe or Paul, I really think it's a toss-up and most of it should be decided on the upcoming head-to-head match between lakers and Hornets and the winner of that should be getting the MVP trophy even if either team is ahead by 2 games at the end of the season.

Kobe's avg:
28ppg, 6reb, 5assists, and nearly 2 steals

Paul's avg:
21ppg, 4reb, 11assists, and nearly 3 steals

So let me ask you, why is Kobe not deserving?

The Lakers have had a different line-up throughout the season with injuries to Bynum (played 35 games), Ariza, and Gasol (has played only 21 games with the Lakers).

Kobe has had Bynum or Gasol for a total of 56 games, he has played really well on both ends of the court even with the injuries and the Lakers are still top 3 in the WEST.

Provided the injuries the Lakers have faced throughout the season along with the turmoil the Lakers faced in the off-season and the record they've been able to attain thus far why isn't Kobe deserving?

[big123]

Ok can anyone make a case as to why Kobe isn't deserving of MVP?

I could give it to Kobe or Paul, I really think it's a toss-up and most of it should be decided on the upcoming head-to-head match between lakers and Hornets and the winner of that should be getting the MVP trophy even if either team is ahead by 2 games at the end of the season.

Kobe's avg:
28ppg, 6reb, 5assists, and nearly 2 steals

Paul's avg:
21ppg, 4reb, 11assists, and nearly 3 steals

So let me ask you, why is Kobe not deserving?

The Lakers have had a different line-up throughout the season with injuries to Bynum (played 35 games), Ariza, and Gasol (has played only 21 games with the Lakers).

Kobe has had Bynum or Gasol for a total of 56 games, he has played really well on both ends of the court even with the injuries and the Lakers are still top 3 in the WEST.

Provided the injuries the Lakers have faced throughout the season along with the turmoil the Lakers faced in the off-season and the record they've been able to attain thus far why isn't Kobe deserving?

He is most definitely deserving. He's been deserving alot of years, but their is always someone MORE deserving and this year it's Paul IMO. If Kobe wins it over Paul, I will chalk it up that Kobe was owed for being 2nd or 3rd place for previous years

Lakers fans should just be satisfied with stealing Gasol to even have a legit chance at a title this year. What is the Lakers record with Gasol? You said he played 21 games, but I bet the Lakers are like 16-5 or something.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

Ok can anyone make a case as to why Kobe isn't deserving of MVP?

Try reading the last 15 pages. The Paul contigent has made a very strong case. If the Lakers would've lost last night, I would've joined them. I might have to anyway, Paul had an amazing game. Kobe had an OK one and wasn't the hero of the game.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

Kobe is deserving, but look at them yesterday...the bench cut a 10 point deficit with both Gasol and Kobe out..apart from the Memphis game that bench and the supporting cast has been great with or without injuries.

Paul has also had a great supporting cast, though that bench has been below average, look at them yesterday..they provided nothing and Paul and the starting lineup had to cut down an 8 point deficit against the Knicks. That bench had a good run for like a month, but look at the depth of the other Western Conference teams..the fact that NO is still in 1st says a lot about Paul.

Oh, and Considering New Orleans has a 2-1 lead over LA, it doesnt seem fair to make the MVP come down to that 1 game.

[eatyourchildren]

Kobe is deserving, but look at them yesterday...the bench cut a 10 point deficit with both Gasol and Kobe out..apart from the Memphis game that bench and the supporting cast has been great with or without injuries.

Paul has also had a great supporting cast, though that bench has been below average, look at them yesterday..they provided nothing and Paul and the starting lineup had to cut down an 8 point deficit against the Knicks. That bench had a good run for like a month, but look at the depth of the other Western Conference teams..the fact that NO is still in 1st says a lot about Paul.

Oh, and Considering New Orleans has a 2-1 lead over LA, it doesnt seem fair to make the MVP come down to that 1 game.

Isn't that the whole point though? The Lakers bench is great...as a bench, not as starters. Nobody is arguing that the Hornets bench is better than the Lakers bench, or that the Hornets starters are better than the Lakers starters. The one apt comparison this season is that the Hornets starters are better than the Lakers bench, and that comparison has accounted for 25% of the season, if not more.

Bynum wasn't a starter until his, what, 3rd, 4th week? Pau came in midseason? Like I said before, NBA teams aren't Mr. Potatoheads that you can seamlessly swap players, and especially not in the triangle. That you all even think that they were seamless transitions speaks volumes about Phil and Kobe's management of the lineups.

[shobe_81]

Kobe is deserving, but look at them yesterday...the bench cut a 10 point deficit with both Gasol and Kobe out..apart from the Memphis game that bench and the supporting cast has been great with or without injuries.

Paul has also had a great supporting cast, though that bench has been below average, look at them yesterday..they provided nothing and Paul and the starting lineup had to cut down an 8 point deficit against the Knicks. That bench had a good run for like a month, but look at the depth of the other Western Conference teams..the fact that NO is still in 1st says a lot about Paul.

Oh, and Considering New Orleans has a 2-1 lead over LA, it doesnt seem fair to make the MVP come down to that 1 game.

Why, Pau Gasol played about 3 minutes of the last game against the Hornets before he went down! That's like saying well because Lakers are 2-1 it's not fair to give the MVP to the winner of the next game although West only played 3 minutes of the game with Chandler injured!

[ljp24]

I think this game just killed Lebron's MVP chances

[shobe_81]

If we're going to use the Bench argument, then can we use the Starting 5 argument as well?

The Hornets do have:

David West: a 20ppg and nearly 10reb guy
Tyson Chandler: a 11ppg and nearly 12 reb guy (the best offensive rebounder in the game today)
and Paja: a deadly shooter