MVP Watch 2008... Part 5

[Texas Longhorns]

Round 5.

Links to previous threads:

Link for Part 1

Link for Part 2

Link for Part 3

Link for Part 4

Continue discussion here...

[ripthecord]

whats there to discuss?

kobe.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

1. Kobe
1. CP
3. KG
4. LeBron
5. Who cares

[Suns_Fever]

1. CP
2. Kobe
3. KG
4. Lebron
5. Amare

[JordansBulls]

Chris Paul is #1 or KG.

Source: BostonHerald

Last night

[drza]

Regarding Garnett, he is rising in my list again, but his candidacy was killed by how well the team did without him.

This was in part 4 of the thread, but since I was off the board yesterday I'm just getting to respond today. If how the team did without him is going to kill KG's candidacy, you have to at least look at WHO they beat. The Celts went 7 - 2 without KG...five of those wins were against the Heat, the Knicks, the Timberwolves, the Clippers, and the Pacers (Combined record 106-268).

The Celtics actually played relatively tight games against those teams without KG, winning by an average of 7 points outside of the Heat, (who they beat by 30). The Celts were undefeated against those same 5 teams with KG, but they won by almost 20 ppg. In other words, it's not that KG's absence didn't make a difference...he just got hurt during the weakest portion of the Celtics schedule when the teams they played were on the whole so bad it didn't matter much.

The Celts did a good job of scrapping and doing what they were supposed to when KG was out. But if the Lakers had played those 5 teams with everyone healthy but Kobe, they probably win. If the Hornets played those 5 teams with everyone healthy but Paul, they probably win. I just don't think the Celts winning closer games against a bunch of teams that they usually blow out is good reason to eliminate KG as a candidate.

[G35]

Chris Paul is #1 or KG.

Source: BostonHerald

Last night

[CBS7]

I want Kobe to win it, because IMO the door will start closing on him soon, even though I think CP deserves it.

[drza]

I think at this point its useless adding the fourth and fifth candidates, Its clearly only three players in this race. Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James.

I don't think there's any question that it's a 4-man race between Paul/Kobe/LeBron and KG. It's not adding a candidate to talk about KG. In fact, if anything, I think the general consensus is that KG is now ahead of LeBron because despite his numbers the Cavs just don't have enough wins. MVPs just don't come off teams with less than 50 wins...even Jordan had to have 50 wins before he started winning MVPs. So if we're going to limit the debate to 3 guys, it'd be Paul/Kobe/KG before it was just Paul/Kobe/LeBron.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

The Celtics turn around is getting alot of play now that they've officially become the only "worst to first" team ever. KG might sneak past everyone.

[magicfan4life05]

I want Kobe to win it, because IMO the door will start closing on him soon, even though I think CP deserves it.

[CzBoobie]

LeBron is completely out of picture now, no need to mention him anymore. It will be very tight race between CP3, KG and Kobe and I have no idea who will get it eventually. I would vote for CP3 though...

[dingclancy]

Again from Jules! QFT!

Again, I think Kobe Bryant deserves MVP:

They are 1 1/2 games back of New Orleans (1st place).

They Lakers are only one game worse at home than New Orleans

The Lakers are one game worse on the road than New Orleans

They Lakers have a better division record and they have the exact same record against the Western Conference.

The Lakers have a larger margin of victory than the hornets.

I think any reasonable person would look at the results of all this and conclude that the Hornets and Lakers are roughly a similar quality team.

BUT: Pau Gasol has been a Laker for 31 games. That means he's been on the roster for about 41% of the Lakers season so far (31/75). He's missed 12 games. The 10 starting at New Orleans and ending with Washington. And he's missed 2 games where he was a Laker but hadn't been acclimated to the system (Toronto, Washington). So he's missed 12 of those 31 games or 39% of the games he's been a Laker.

So look at that. Pau Gasol has been a Laker for over 40% of the Lakers' season, but has missed over a third of the games he has been on the roster.

Andrew Bynum has been on the roster all year. He has played 35 games this season. That means he has missed 40 games! He has missed 53.3% of the season!

The Lakers have played 20 games without either Bynum or Gasol in the lineup. That's 26% of the Lakers season! To put in perspective, that's over a quarter of the Lakers' NBA season with almost no frontline.


Now look at the Hornets:

David West has played in 68 of 74 games. That means he's played in 92% of New Orleans' games so far.

Tyson Chandler has played in 71 of 74 games. That means he's played in 96% of New Orleans' games.

Peja has played in 69 of the 74 games. That means he's played in 93.2% of New Orleans' games.

That would be enough to put the Lakers injury situation into context versus New Orleans, BUT WAIT, there's more.

Peja missed games on 12/9, 12/12, 12/15, 12/17, 12/19

Tyson missed games on 11/21, 2/6, 2/9

West missed games on 1/5, 3/5, 3/7, 3/8, 3/16, 3/17

What is interesting here is that of Paul's top 3 supporting players NONE OF THEM EVER missed a game on the same day. Not once. Ever. It happened to Kobe for over a quarter of the Lakers' seasaon (20/75). It NEVER happened to Paul.

Yet the Lakers are only 1 1/2 games back from first in the West.

And people say Bryant isn't the MVP compared to Paul?

[JordansBulls]

Again from Jules! QFT!

Again, I think Kobe Bryant deserves MVP:

They are 1 1/2 games back of New Orleans (1st place).

They Lakers are only one game worse at home than New Orleans

The Lakers are one game worse on the road than New Orleans

They Lakers have a better division record and they have the exact same record against the Western Conference.

The Lakers have a larger margin of victory than the hornets.

I think any reasonable person would look at the results of all this and conclude that the Hornets and Lakers are roughly a similar quality team.

BUT: Pau Gasol has been a Laker for 31 games. That means he's been on the roster for about 41% of the Lakers season so far (31/75). He's missed 12 games. The 10 starting at New Orleans and ending with Washington. And he's missed 2 games where he was a Laker but hadn't been acclimated to the system (Toronto, Washington). So he's missed 12 of those 31 games or 39% of the games he's been a Laker.

So look at that. Pau Gasol has been a Laker for over 40% of the Lakers' season, but has missed over a third of the games he has been on the roster.

Andrew Bynum has been on the roster all year. He has played 35 games this season. That means he has missed 40 games! He has missed 53.3% of the season!

The Lakers have played 20 games without either Bynum or Gasol in the lineup. That's 26% of the Lakers season! To put in perspective, that's over a quarter of the Lakers' NBA season with almost no frontline.


Now look at the Hornets:

David West has played in 68 of 74 games. That means he's played in 92% of New Orleans' games so far.

Tyson Chandler has played in 71 of 74 games. That means he's played in 96% of New Orleans' games.

Peja has played in 69 of the 74 games. That means he's played in 93.2% of New Orleans' games.

That would be enough to put the Lakers injury situation into context versus New Orleans, BUT WAIT, there's more.

Peja missed games on 12/9, 12/12, 12/15, 12/17, 12/19

Tyson missed games on 11/21, 2/6, 2/9

West missed games on 1/5, 3/5, 3/7, 3/8, 3/16, 3/17

What is interesting here is that of Paul's top 3 supporting players NONE OF THEM EVER missed a game on the same day. Not once. Ever. It happened to Kobe for over a quarter of the Lakers' seasaon (20/75). It NEVER happened to Paul.

Yet the Lakers are only 1 1/2 games back from first in the West.

And people say Bryant isn't the MVP compared to Paul?

Kobe certainly has a case, but Paul's case is better. Not only is he 2nd in PER but he is a 6'0" PG who is 2nd in PER for the entire league. He is on a team that wasn't in the playoffs last year and all of a sudden they are #1 in the west and many continued to think they were a fluke team all year long saying how if they make the playoffs they will barely get in. Next look at his fg%. Paul shoots 49.2% and his team average is 46.5% which means he shoots a better fg% than his team. Kobe shoots 46.0% fg while his team average is 47.6%. So why should a player be the MVP if they don't shoot a better fg% than his team? Sure Iverson in 2001 did so, but they did end up the #1 seed and tied the Lakers for 2nd best record in the league.

[NetsForce]

Chris Paul is #1 or KG.

Source: BostonHerald

Last night

[JordansBulls]

-= original quote snipped =-



And Ray Allen and Paul Pierce are on the same team as Kevin Garnett. People love hyping up Kobe's supporting cast but forget to talk about KG's...

They won 37 games more than last year which is the most ever in a single season. The Spurs had the record the year David Robinson played like 6 games and then they got the #1 pick which was Tim Duncan and Robinson played the whole year the next season and they won a lot more games 36 IIRC.

[magicfan4life05]

Jordansbulls, although it may not seem like it, I do respect your opinion most of the time, why do you think KG should get the mvp over cp3?

[Kobay]

Here is JordanBulls case when he involves lakers

"Blah Blah Blah Blah, Kobe eats children, Blah Blah Blah"

[ILikeTheGrizz]

Okay after that triple-double I'm moving CP into #1. He just can't be denied the last few weeks. Crazy. 16 points, 13 assists, 10 boards, 5 steals. 44% shooting is meh and 5 TOs is high for him, but 16/13/10/5 makes up for it and then some.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Okay after that triple-double I'm moving CP into #1. He just can't be denied the last few weeks. Crazy.

His play has been unbelievable. And most importantly it's been tied to team success.

They've won 10 of their last 11 games