Allen Iverson or Chris Paul

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big123
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Post#161 » by big123 » Sun Apr 6, 2008 9:08 pm

miller31time wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



So we can't argue? Why? Because there actually are reasonable points against your post?

If I were to argue it, which I'm not, I'd say that we've already gone over why ppg is meaningless when not put into context (ie: efficiency), minutes don't really have anything to do with how good or bad a player is, though it does mean he has a lot of stamina, and he got his steals from over-playing and gambling (and losing more times than not). He is a good passer, thus the high assists, and he's great at getting into the paint and getting to the line. For god sakes, he's not a bad player. He does do things right, lol.

But of course, I would never argue those points.


I didn't mean not argue, sorry. I meant to come back with an argument that said that their have been other players to do it, and in fact he is not that good of a player. When you are top 10 in 4 or more categories for your whole career being heavily involved for your teams success, while no one else comes close to that or his consistency, then not one arguement of any category means do or die of a player or how they were able to accomplish it, because none of his peers, PG or SG, comes close during AI's career no matter the argument.

I can make an argument about everyone in the NBA, but I'd rather acknowledge the good and what that player has brung to the game of basketball, because I'm a fan of basketball, period. The game I watch and get my entertainment from, not effiency rating on ESPN.
Idunkon1stdates
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Post#162 » by Idunkon1stdates » Mon Apr 7, 2008 3:24 am

big123 wrote:I can make an argument about everyone in the NBA, but I'd rather acknowledge the good and what that player has brung to the game of basketball, because I'm a fan of basketball, period. The game I watch and get my entertainment from, not effiency rating on ESPN.

I can only speak for myself, but I hope you aren't confusing what I've been talking about with John Hollinger's PER... that's a whole other can of worms (hint: I think PER sucks).
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Post#163 » by miller31time » Mon Apr 7, 2008 4:42 am

big123 wrote:I can make an argument about everyone in the NBA, but I'd rather acknowledge the good and what that player has brung to the game of basketball, because I'm a fan of basketball, period. The game I watch and get my entertainment from, not effiency rating on ESPN.


I really have no problem with anyone being a fan of Iverson. Not at all. He's a very entertaining player to watch. He is, as you have mentioned throughout this thread, a spotlighted player because of his size. Each game seems like a new challenge for AI.

I get all of this, and I enjoy it as well. But the stance I'm coming from is not that of an entertainment perspective. It's a whole different story. A player can be very fun to watch, but his production may not, necessarily, equal his "wow" factor. This is, in my opinion, one of those cases.

Oh, and as for your last sentence, that's a common misconception. A player's shooting efficiency is not the same as PER. They're two different things. TS% and eFG% are basically field goal percentage, but without all of it's faults. PER is a combination of many advanced stats that tries to formulate a singular statistic to judge a player's offensive prowess. It, as Hollinger has stated numerous times, is not perfect, nor should it be the golden standard.

Here's a really good link for in-depth statistics. It gives examples for each stat and easy-to-understand explanations.

Layman's Guide to Advanced NBA Stats
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Post#164 » by Idunkon1stdates » Mon Apr 7, 2008 5:12 am

Ironically, Hollinger's PER favors Allen Iverson: it rewards volume, not efficiency because missed shots are not penalized enough and shot attempts are given too much weight.

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