Were we a better team with Hughes and Gooden

[Baseline Runner]

The last two years we played our best with James, Z, Gooden and Hughes all on the court. That was the core of our team and when everyone was healthy we had a very good win rate the last 2 years and we made the finals. When one of those guys went down we struggled and were inconsistent. I am still glad we made that trade as I don't want those guys on our team in the long term. However one has to have homer goggles not to see that Hughes and Gooden were more talented than anyone else on our team past or present not named Lebron or Z.

[TheOUTLAW]

I think you are overstating the importance of the Cavs "core" players in your description. Fact was the Cavs played to be close at the end at which time Hughes and Gooden weren't even on the floor most times.

[gflem]

Great Post Baseline Runner I was discussing this same topic with my one friend the other day. I think that this trade was the classic example of addition by subtraction, Larry didn't want to be here and Drew had a bad basketball IQ. I think that the only player that the Cavs are going to keep is West, maybe Joe (a capable veteran big man). I hate to admit it though I miss Larry's premier defense, I don't see Ben being the defender that he once ones. All in all i think that this trade was probably a good move.

I hope its not your one and only friend. (just kidding) I think the best observation is that joe smith should be setting the picks instead of andy. He would kill the other teams with midrange j's when they all follow LB. AND the biggest thing is our teams health.

At this point I think if LB is having back probs, they should sit him and get him right. it would allow some more mins for the rest of the team, inparticular Sasah who was a huge part of the team making the finals. His defense was very good throughout the playoffs, and we will need that more from him than even his offense.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

HA! Saying that Hughes and Gooden were better for this team is laughable... There is no single reason or single argument that could make me believe that we were a better team... It was addition by subtraction...

Hughes was horribly inefficient on offense, but if West and Wally don't step up, together they're playing worse than Hughes was. West is averaging 2.1 turnovers a game. Hughes played 11 more minutes per game and averaged less. Neither Wally or West are shooting much better from 3. Wally's shooting worse from two.

But most importantly, Hughes is a better defender than both. The Cavs defense has suffered since the trade. Wally couldn't keep my mom from getting into the lane.

As for Wallace, he's no where near his Pistons form. And his offense is so bad he couldn't score on Wally Szczerbiak. Joe Smith is a quality backup big. But I'd take Gooden over Wallace.

[Smooth32]

Hughes was horribly inefficient on offense, but if West and Wally don't step up, together they're playing worse than Hughes was. West is averaging 2.1 turnovers a game. Hughes played 11 more minutes per game and averaged less. Neither Wally or West are shooting much better from 3. Wally's shooting worse from two.

He may be averaging that many turnovers, but he's up around 5 or 6 assists a game--which is something that Larry wasn't able to do here and yet still managed the same amount of turnovers as West--while being very aggressive offensively... He's constantly probing and looking for an opening, unlike Hughes... His turnovers are due to aggression and it's something that I'm willing to deal with, unlike Hughes' stupidity...

West is not a great shooter, but he is improved from Hughes...

Wally is a good shooter, he just hasn't been able to do well since coming here... He's a good career shooter, so I'll side my weariness...

Bottom line is that I'll take West and Szczerbiak over the oft-injured, malcontent, inconsistent Larry Hughes any day... At least these guys play hard and their contracts are very favorable for how they play and for our sake...

But most importantly, Hughes is a better defender than both. The Cavs defense has suffered since the trade. Wally couldn't keep my mom from getting into the lane.

Suffered? I'm pretty sure our defensive numbers have been much better..

And while we did lose Hughes defense, we also lost Gooden's terrible defense along with Marshall and gained Wallace and Smith on the interior... Interior defense is much more important than perimeter and is why we're a better defensive team..

As for Wallace, he's no where near his Pistons form. And his offense is so bad he couldn't score on Wally Szczerbiak. Joe Smith is a quality backup big. But I'd take Gooden over Wallace.

Sure he isn't his Piston form, but no one expected him to be... Honestly he's been everything I hoped for as his defense as been solid, he's rebounded well and has given us another shot blocker... While his offense isn't spectacular, it's not something that we wanted nor do we need...

Gooden was good offensively but his ineffectiveness and inconsistency is terrible on both ends...

I never got why so many people loved Gooden despite him consistently have a negative on/off court rating... Despite him playing so well on the Bulls, he only has a +0.2 Roland Rating... At least that's better than Hughes pathetic -2.1..

[TheOUTLAW]

West has the ball way more than Hughes ever did. He is actually playing the point guard position which is why his turnovers are so high (of course, it really doesn't explain why LeBron are as well). Not to mention it seems that West gets a charging call every game. Wally started out shooting poorly, but has been shooting alot better of late. The question to me is why is it that Sasha and Damon have completely fallen out of the rotation.

[stlboy]

My opinion is that the Cavs were a better team before the trade. They were 16-7 before the trade, Hughes wasn't playing great but he was playing better averaging close to 15/4/3. I just think the trade should've been made at the end of the year, or trade for something that was benefiting the team. Chemistry alone is reason you don't make this trade, unless you bringing an all-star, and Kidd fit this team like a glove because they had athletes to run. It wasn't the players, its the way the coaches gameplan and it doesn't fit James, Hughes, Boobie, Gooden, or any other uptemple players. It fits players like Z, Snow, Newble.

[Benedict_Boozer]

It wasn't the players, its the way the coaches gameplan and it doesn't fit James, Hughes, Boobie, Gooden, or any other uptemple players. It fits players like Z, Snow, Newble.

I agree with you there, our offense strategy does not really take full advantage of Lebron's strengths or the majority of this team (that's coaching)

Lebron is probably the best open court player in the entire world, and we basically play a grind it out halfcourt style. It works in the playoffs though..

[INKtastic]

^^ which is why we do it. The problem we have this year is it doesn't work when you have so many injuries to deal with.