Agree or Disagree: One year extensions for BK and Woody?

[JoshB914]

Everyone thought Doc was a bad coach last year. Everyone. In fact he was criticized for similar things to Woody- weird substitution patterns and a bad offense.

Of course it is important to have a good coach, and that is why we should get rid of Woody. But even championship coaches don't win if they don't have championship players.

[HoopsGuru25]

Rip...What do you think Woody's record would be if he coached the Celtics? It's not hard to coach a team with 3 all-stars...it's not even like they've played alot of close games this year. Most of their games aren't close(they have the best point differential by a WIDE margin). Rivers(like Flip Saunders in 06)can't be evaluated(imo)until the playoffs. Until then...I'm not impressed. He's never got out the 1st round and his team blew a series against a team that had no Ron Artest and Jermaine O'neal playing with 1 good arm. Byron Scott would also look alot worse as a coach if his roster had Marvin instead of Paul and if their GM wasted their cap space on Speedy/Lo instead of Peja/Chandler.

The answer is that both have to go but that BK has done far more harm to the Hawks. This is like asking would you rather have Flip Saunders with Joe Dumars' roster or Larry Brown with Isiah Thomas' roster. The NBA will always be a players league.

[conleyorbust]

Of course it is important to have a good coach, and that is why we should get rid of Woody. But even championship coaches don't win if they don't have championship players.

I was just trying to make sure you weren't on the, "coaches don't matter at all" tip.

Woody was fine for the team while we had no hope of the playoffs. We didn't have to pay him much because he doesn't bring much to the table, there is no point of wasting quality coaching on a **** team. Just like it was a shame to see a quality player like Garnett on a **** team. Now that we aren't a **** team any more we need a coach that can help push us to the next level. Not a Jackson or a Popovich, just a SVG or an EJ.

[Gutz]

Rip...What do you think Woody's record would be if he coached the Celtics? It's not hard to coach a team with 3 all-stars...it's not even like they've played alot of close games this year. Most of their games aren't close(they have the best point differential by a WIDE margin). Rivers(like Flip Saunders in 06)can't be evaluated(imo)until the playoffs. Until then...I'm not impressed. He's never got out the 1st round and his team blew a series against a team that had no Ron Artest and Jermaine O'neal playing with 1 good arm. Byron Scott would also look alot worse as a coach if his roster had Marvin instead of Paul and if their GM wasted their cap space on Speedy/Lo instead of Peja/Chandler.

The answer is that both have to go but that BK has done far more harm to the Hawks. This is like asking would you rather have Flip Saunders with Joe Dumars' roster or Larry Brown with Isiah Thomas' roster. The NBA will always be a players league.

The above bold quote is exactly what we are trying to say about BK and Woody. I'm by no means saying Woody is as good a coach as Larry Brown but look how horrible Brown was in NY and it was because of the AWFUL job Isiah did as the GM. He had the most flawed roster in the NBA.

[LL Cool Scott]

[quote="conleyorbust"][/quote]

A team that is winning with a bad coach? The Boston Celtics.

Pat Riley's teams have been terrible when he didn't have HOF talent. Greg Popovich won 21 games when they didn't have Duncan. The Lakers have sucked under Phil Jackson without Shaq and Kobe. Larry Brown is generally considered one of the best basketball coaches ever, and he was dreadful with that awful Knicks roster. Look at the Pistons over the past decade - it doesn't matter who coaches them, they win.

Coaching matters - but not nearly as much as ownership and the front office. Since the owners aren't going anywhere, I believe Knight is a much bigger albatross around our necks than Woodson.

(Just for the record - I think Woodson is incompetent - but I think it is almost inconsequential in relation to the incompetency of our ownership and front office)

[conleyorbust]

[quote="LL Cool Scott"][/quote]

I just don't see why it has to be a competition between the two...

I think its obvious that coaching isn't as important as personnel. If it were a "if you could only fire one" type of deal than I'd can BK all day, it shouldn't be that way though. It should be a two and one deal. Get rid of both of them.

Doc Rivers isn't a top notch coach but the whole, "Rivers sucks" movement only started last season. He won the COY in Orlando.

Again, I'd like to ask why good teams pay their coaches so much money if their jobs are as inconsequential as you make it seem. Its a marketplace for a reason.

Good players don't do well in crappy situations but that doesn't mean they aren't good players. Look at KG, he benefitted from moving as much as Rivers benefitted from having him, and they both benefitted from having Thibedeau on the sidelines coaching the D (although I'll readily admit the biggest difference in Boston is KG, he's my MVP choice).

Anyway, I also think that Woody just isn't the right coach for this team. Beyond the fact that it seems like they guys don't really like him, I think he'd be better in a place like Dallas, Detroit, or even Toronto because those teams have solid enough personnel to run his simple offenses.

My point is that Woody shouldn't get a pass because BK sucks, even if BK really sucks.

[LL Cool Scott]

^ Agreed. I want both gone. I just don't want Woodson to be made the sacrificial scapegoat when the more serious problems are ownership and front office. I'd be delighted if Woodson and Knight were both shown the door. I'm resigned to the fact that the Spirit A-Holes aren't going anywhere.

[conleyorbust]

^ Agreed. I want both gone. I just don't want Woodson to be made the sacrificial scapegoat when the more serious problems are ownership and front office. I'd be delighted if Woodson and Knight were both shown the door. I'm resigned to the fact that the Spirit A-Holes aren't going anywhere.

Yeah, I think Chris Paul winning MVP, Speedy missing the entire season, and Brandon Roy making the ASG will/should push BK over the edge when the bosses do their review.

The new guy is gonna want to have an entire new staff, hopefully a new training staff too because I have been really disappointed in the lack of progression in some of our young guys.

Anyway, that is the way I hope things will happen.