Ed Snider talking Sixers and Flyers on Comcast Now

[carlos1223]

I love how dond defends everyone involved within the Sixers organization like they're his relatives. Hes defended Willie Green for gods sakes, Mo, and now Ed Snider. This team need a superstar to go anywhere. Igoudala has already proved himself to be a worth second option. We need a true superstar here. Thad can be out third option. If we eventually bring our own superstar here then we will have our own "big three". We could be a legit 60 win team with the signing of a Gilbert Arenas, Lebron, Kobe, or an Elton Brand type

[STChaser]

Agreed TGP.

An a similar note, here is the things about "egos"; the players who have them are often the more competitive players. It's hard to find true competitors without giant egos. If you look back at pre-injury KMart, Amare, Sheed, J. O'neal, Carmello, etc. all these PF's are ultra competitive but also bring attitude. While I'd welcome most of these guys on our team, I'd much rather take on a Duncan, Garnett, Boozer, Okafor, or Horford simply because I'd rather have the skills minus the attitude. Don't get me wrong, the attitude is fine if it's aimed at our opponents. But when those same attitudes turn against management, teammates, etc., they can ruin a franchise.

This is the thing to watch out for with Iguodala. He's going to get the big payday this summer and in my opinion, he's pretty much earned it. But he's going to have to keep his ego in check because we have several players who are close to him in terms of their talent level / what they bring to the team, etc., and I could see Iguodala rubbing some teammates the wrong way with his public scoldings on missed assignments, etc. So long as Iguodala continues to walk the walk though, I think he should be fine.


STChaser

[Sixers24]

I love how dond defends everyone involved within the Sixers organization like they're his relatives. Hes defended Willie Green for gods sakes, Mo, and now Ed Snider. This team need a superstar to go anywhere. Igoudala has already proved himself to be a worth second option. We need a true superstar here. Thad can be out third option. If we eventually bring our own superstar here then we will have our own "big three". We could be a legit 60 win team with the signing of a Gilbert Arenas, Lebron, Kobe, or an Elton Brand type

60 wins? lulz.

[Sixerscan]

I agree with CPops on this one. I also may be in the minority here but I truly believe we are two players away from being serious contenders - and I'm talking "championship" here. Those two players are a true PF in the Al Horford mold and a backup 5 to eventually take over the role from Sam.

So we're a 10/10 PF and a backup center away from making a 39-38 team a champion. Cool.

Ok, but look at the flip side of that argument. Look how many teams are out there who did have superstars and still had nothing to show for it.

Only one team can win a championship a year so that doesn't make any sense.

[dbodner]

I get what you're saying but on the flip side, you can pretty much say that 90% of the teams in the NBA have one "superstar" on their roster

Then your definition of superstar is flawed. We're talking about Duncan's and Shaq's. Hakeem's and Jordan's. Wade's and Bird and Magic's.

Not Zach Randolph.

Only one team can win a championship a year so that doesn't make any sense.

Makes sense.

[STChaser]

So we're a 10/10 PF and a backup center away from making a 39-38 team a champion. Cool

Well, there were plenty here who thought my predictions of us making the playoffs were laughable, so go figure. (by the way, that 39-38 record does not reflect how good this team really is because it negates our improvement since Thaddeus was given legit minutes). Our record earlier this season does not reflect this team's real ability. And yes, I do think that if we had Horford playing the PF on this squad and a 5 similar to Sam like Thabeet backing him up, we'd be heading to the Finals.

Look at our two biggest weaknesses; Evans inability to score, hence, never demanding attention on defense, and exposing our interior D when Sam is on the bench. In my opinion, a PF like Horford would immediately improve this team because it would disallow teams from doubling Iguodala, give us a low post scorer, and move Thaddeus to his natural position at SF and slide Iguodala over to SG, ridding our starting lineup of WG.

Likewise, the addition of another 5 like Thabeet, would mean that teams wouldn't be able to drive straight to the rim every time Sam sits. Think about it, imagine how much a 7'3 shotblocker would help out our interior D when Sam sits. This has been one of our most glaring weaknesses all season.

So you sure up these two deficiencies and I do whole-heartedly believe that we are suddenly one of the top two teams in the East - if not the top team. And I do think a lineup like this gets us to the Finals and then some;

PG: Miller, Lou
SG: Iguodala, Carney, Green
SF: Thaddeus, Carney
PF: Horford, Evans, Jason Smith
C: Sam, Thabeet, Smith



STChaser

[Louis Williams]

Outside of the Pistons, the teams that won championships had multiple HOF level players (or at the very least perennial all-stars) on their roster.

Duncan-Ginobili/Parker
Shaq-Wade
Duncan-Robinson
Kobe-Shaq
MJ-Pippen
Olajuwon-Drexler
Isiah-Dumars
Bird-McHale-Parish
Magic-Kareem-Worthy

If the Sixers are not going to be able to get HOF level players, the Detroit model seems to be the next best way to go about building a contender.

[The Guilty Party]

The last time I checked, the Pistons also had perennial all-stars on their roster.

Who on the Sixers is better than Rasheed Wallace? Who on the Sixers in better than Billups? Rip Hamilton? What about Ben Wallace circa 2004? Hell, if put on this team Tayshaun Prince would be considered a leader and not the #5 guy.

It's possible that the current Sixers' team develop and has an All-Star or two but 4 of them? The Pistons' model is a pipedream for franchises that don't have a superstar.

[tk76]

I'm not exactly sure where all this is going. No one would expect us to go from the basement to a champion with one or two simple moves. It is all about climbing the ladder from lottery to young and competitive, to mid tier playoff team to contender then champion.

The team is on the right track, and doesn't look to have any horrible contracts or major issues with a closing window (except Miller) that will block the teams progress. No one can ever ensure having a champion. No one can ensure that we will get the chance to acquire a superstar- but having lots of young prospects and cap space helps your chances of trading for one.

I don't think their is one perfect path for this team to make.

They could try to win now by signing a vet like Brand or Jamison and try to sneak their way to the finals through a comparatively weak EC. In 2 seasons Miller and the new vet will still be good, and Sam, Iguodala, Thad and Lou might be good enough to make this a very balanced and deep team that can make the finals and then maybe get lucky. If that fails, the core will still be young, and they can reload for a second run with Thad, Iguodala and Lou in their late prime.

They could sign a younger guy with upside like Smith or Biedrens and hope to have 4 good-great players all peaking in 3 years- and then add an old star with the MLE and take their shot at a sustained run of excellence.

hey could sit on their money, and try to steal a superstar on the trading block in the coming years by using capspace, 2 #1's and a prospect. That would get us our superstar (albeit maybe in the tail of their prime), but its not like that would ensure even a finals appearance.
---

End result, we have a young, exciting team that should be on the upswing for quite some time. That's a great position to be in considering all of the young teams that have talent and yet seem stuck in mediocrity or worse. I know its taboo to not be in CHIP or Bust mode- but if the worst case scenario is a run like we had in the Barkley or AI eras it would no be so bad. Those were exciting times to be a Sixer fan.

[The Guilty Party]

Is Elton Brand a superstar? If so, according to Ed we can forget about him.

[CPops57]

-= original quote snipped =-

There's no hate for the Pistons model but the Pistons won the championship with 4 All-Star players.....

And that's what the Sixers would have if they added a good PF because winning changes perceptions of players.

If the Sixers add a good PF and have a winning record over the next few years, then they'd have 4 players who'd merit serious all-star consideration over that time period: the PF, Iggy, Miller, and Dalembert. (Maybe even Young too depending on how quickly he develops)

I'm not sure where to research this to confirm this, but I'm fairly certain that Rip, Chauncey, and Ben didn't make their first all-star teams until they got off horrible teams and became Pistons. (Sheed was a previous all-star, but he was added later than the others.)

I maintain that adding a good PF is going to have a tremendously positive domino effect on this team's fortunes. We're a .500 team playing 4 on 5 every possession. Think about that.

[tk76]

-= original quote snipped =-


I maintain that adding a good PF is going to have a tremendously positive domino effect on this team's fortunes. We're a .500 team playing 4 on 5 every possession. Think about that.

Sometime 3 on 5.

[dbodner]

I'm not sure where to research this to confirm this

Basketball-reference.com, of course.

First years being an all-star:
RIP: 2006
Billups: 2006
Prince: Never
Rasheed: 2000
Ben Wallace: 2003

But trying to duplicate the Pistons method of winning is going to be a near impossible task, IMO.

[CPops57]

I'd be thrilled if somebody can think of a realistic way to acquire an Amare or Dwight Howard type.

As I don't see that happening though, I think that building a team with 5 above average starters like Detroit had is the best path going forward.

We've got 4 out of the 5 pieces already with cap space and trade assets to add another good or very good PF this summer, so I'm optimistic about the future. Of course, there's no guarantee we're winning a title, but I think the ride will be enjoyable.


PS: Thanks for that link dabods. I'd forgotten that BR had that info.

[The Guilty Party]

I'd be thrilled if somebody can think of a realistic way to acquire an Amare or Dwight Howard type.

As I don't see that happening though, I think that building a team with 5 above average starters like Detroit had is the best path going forward.

We've got 4 out of the 5 pieces already with cap space and trade assets to add another good or very good PF this summer, so I'm optimistic about the future. Of course, there's no guarantee we're winning a title, but I think the ride will be enjoyable.


PS: Thanks for that link dabods. I'd forgotten that BR had that info.

I think there are a lot of teams using the Detroit model but none of them are winning anything and that's the problem. Doesn't Golden State have a team of quality players and no one true superstar? Didn't Chicago try this and it blew up in their face to the point that they have been rumored in every major deal for a superstar since?? Isn't Atlanta running a similar gimmick but are battling for the 8th seed?

[Sixersftw]

your right tgp. The detroit model takes the upmost skill in decision making. Detroit have made one really noticeable mistake and that was darko. Darko, however, did not touch their core unit. We have alot on our side that the other teams you mentioned do not.

For one we have the fortune to not have made a poor decision yet but we are much earlier in the game than the other teams.

Golden state is running a system that is destined to fail. a bunch of little guys flying around with no idea of what defense is, not to mention they are in the west, thus complicating matters.

Chicago has made a myriad of poor decisions. not trading for these various superstars, drafting ty thomas rather than lemarcus ect. on top of that some of their peices really don't mesh together (most notably bg/cap't kirk)

Atlanta choose to draft marvin williams rather than the MVP when it was a position of need and their draft stocks were extremely similar.

We are by far the closest to the detroit model than any of the teams listed. Hardnosed D. Offense that isn't really dependant on one guy. plus we have the addition of the break. We already have 3 very good, sub allstar, players with thad looking like a lock to be the 4th.

While i don't think it's likely we or another team will repeat detroits success I think we have a better shot than most teams.

[ankle420breaker]

your right tgp. The detroit model takes the upmost skill in decision making. Detroit have made one really noticeable mistake and that was darko. Darko, however, did not touch their core unit. We have alot on our side that the other teams you mentioned do not.

For one we have the fortune to not have made a poor decision yet but we are much earlier in the game than the other teams.

Golden state is running a system that is destined to fail. a bunch of little guys flying around with no idea of what defense is, not to mention they are in the west, thus complicating matters.

Chicago has made a myriad of poor decisions. not trading for these various superstars, drafting ty thomas rather than lemarcus ect. on top of that some of their peices really don't mesh together (most notably bg/cap't kirk)

Atlanta choose to draft marvin williams rather than the MVP when it was a position of need and their draft stocks were extremely similar.

We are by far the closest to the detroit model than any of the teams listed. Hardnosed D. Offense that isn't really dependant on one guy. plus we have the addition of the break. We already have 3 very good, sub allstar, players with thad looking like a lock to be the 4th.

While i don't think it's likely we or another team will repeat detroits success I think we have a better shot than most teams.

well put sir

[STChaser]

And that's what the Sixers would have if they added a good PF because winning changes perceptions of players.

If the Sixers add a good PF and have a winning record over the next few years, then they'd have 4 players who'd merit serious all-star consideration over that time period: the PF, Iggy, Miller, and Dalembert. (Maybe even Young too depending on how quickly he develops)

I'm not sure where to research this to confirm this, but I'm fairly certain that Rip, Chauncey, and Ben didn't make their first all-star teams until they got off horrible teams and became Pistons. (Sheed was a previous all-star, but he was added later than the others.)

I maintain that adding a good PF is going to have a tremendously positive domino effect on this team's fortunes. We're a .500 team playing 4 on 5 every possession. Think about that.

EVERYTHING THAT CPOPS WROTE
Great point about the domino effect once a decent PF is acquired.

STChaser

[Salvistine24]

the problem is with all of those teams u listed: atlanta, chicago, and golden state...none have a star pf and we are in the same boat...in fact, i think state is in a better position than us bc they have young guys like monta ellis and biendris who could be possibly moved for a stud pf if it came down to it or old vets with more value to other teams than ours (baron, al harrington)

i tend to think that our youth is more advanced than atlantas too but i would venture to say that their guys could net more in trades back than ours...i see horford, smith, williams, law as worth more than young, iggy, carney, louwill...

but then again the premis is we arent acquiring a star bc ed doesnt want too..i still think atlanta isnt a title contender but i think their youth has more potential and they could leapfrog us if we do not make any substantial moves in the next few years

chicago is toast bc their youth was always slightly overtouted and hinrich looks to hit the wall...he was the real glue to that team

color me skeptical of our long term championship aspirations compared to others around us...we might be the most like the pistons model now but other teams i think will pass us or give up the pistons model when they see its doomed for failue

[bebopdeluxe]

Great posts by CPops and Sixersftw in this thread.

And thanks, dabods, for putting meat on the bone with the All-Star appearances by the Pistons...a grand total of two, singular appearances (one of those when the player wasn't on the Pistons). I agree with posters who have said in this thread that:

1) Our 39-38 nrecord is decieving, IMO...since Korver was moved and Thad was put in the lineup, we have played at a materially higher-than-.500 level...with one of the youngest teams in the league (at least in the youngest quartile). It is not a pipe dream to suggest that - simply with age and experience - this team (as currently constructed) should get even better over then next year or two;

2) This team does something that any team that wants to win a championship does...they play D. They commit to it...and most games, they play it for 48 minutes;

3) It certainly is not unrealistic to project that - assuming Eddie gets us a legit PF this summer and Thad continues his progress - that we will have average-to-above-average players at all five positions on the floor, which is certainly what the Pistons had in 2004 and what can allow a team that does not have one or two true superstars to play in May and June.

In the playoffs, it becomes a grind-it-out, halfcourt game, where you attack the weakest link of the other team. The strength of the Pistons in '04 was there was no "weakest link" (like when Prince basically put Korver on the bench when we played them in '05),...and as I look at an Eastern Conference that will see the two dominant teams continue to age over the next couple of years, I think that - if we fill that PF slot - we will compare pretty favorably to the other young teams in the conference (Cavs, Magic, Wiz) that have at least one or two weak matchups that we can exploit.

Will it all work out like this?

I have no freaking idea.

But, assuming that we use our cap room wisely this summer, it is not inconceivable to see the Sixers as a 50+ win team withing the next couple of years...and at that point, factors like team health, amount of home-court and how "hot" you are going into the playoffs may go a long way towards offsetting how much "superstardom" we have on our team.