2 for 2 Swap

IggyTheBEaST · Post #1 » by **IggyTheBEaST** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:25 pm

Would you give Gerald and Jrich for JR and Melo?

Post #2 » by **Paydro70** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:30 pm

I love Melo, but is he really THAT much better than either one of those guys to make up for both? I think JRich alone is at a level very close to Melo this month.

Obviously he's a star, but a lineup of Felton-JR-Melo-Dudley-Okafor isn't better than Felton-JRich-Wallace-Dudley-Okafor.

Post #3 » by **BigSlam** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:22 pm

JR is a bench player. JSwish and Crash are not.

Interesting idea, but I would pass.

W_HAMILTON · Post #4 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:23 pm

I wouldn't, unless somehow the swap freed up enough money to make a serious run at a big-time FA this offseason, and even then I probably wouldn't do it.

SteveMorrison15 · Post #5 » by **SteveMorrison15** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:45 pm

pass. Defense from JRich and Wallace over none with the other dudes.

e4Nf6 · Post #6 » by **e4Nf6** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:55 pm

You all are in insane......

Great deal for the bobcats. Melo is younger and a better scorer than Jrich(neither are much to look at defensively) and while we lose a bit on JR for Crash, JR for all his knuckle-headedness would not only be a starter on maybe 20 NBA Teams he would probably score 20ppg on 10 of them.

Post #7 » by **BigSlam** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:23 pm

"Great deal for the bobcats. Melo is younger and a better scorer than Jrich'

He's also a bucket load more expensive and more expensive for longer too.

"JR for all his knuckle-headedness would not only be a starter on maybe 20 NBA Teams he would probably score 20ppg on 10 of them."

Which is why he's been bounced between three teams in as many years?

JValone · Post #8 » by **JValone** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:42 pm

I've always been of the the opinion that if you get the best player in the trade you've won that trade. Melo is far better than J-Rich/Crash, as much as I love having them, and he's younger on top of that. He's led his team to the playoffs in the WEST multiple times and it appears it's about to happen again. He has also shown considerable improvement in the low block and it's entirely impossible he could become an above-average defender.

The question you have to ask yourself is this: Can J-Rich/Crash take us anywhere significant anytime soon? Melo has a better chance of taking us further and his window of opportunity will be wide open for a long time. JR is just a throw in but he isn't a terrible throw in, he could give us a decent contribution.

It's sort of pointless to debate it though, the Nuggets would never make this deal because it's so lop-sided.

SteveMorrison15 · Post #9 » by **SteveMorrison15** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:39 pm

yeah e4Nf6, well if you want Youth and scoring over POSITIVE Team Moral and Defense be my guest.

were looking for a championship here not a player to get off on in our Fantasy league for the next 6 to 7 years.

call me crazy not to take this deal, but then you'll also call me right in a few years too.

doc.end · Post #10 » by **doc.end** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:42 pm

e4Nf6 wrote:JR for all his knuckle-headedness would not only be a starter on maybe 20 NBA Teams he would probably score 20ppg on 10 of them.

And this should be a positive or what?

DaBassSource · Post #11 » by **DaBassSource** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:15 pm

I don't see why you guys would not consider it....the Health issues with Crash worry me....I also agree that JR would start for a lot of teams...I think he's a younger J-Rich( skills alone)...
The attitude issues are what would concern me.....

IggyTheBEaST · Post #12 » by **IggyTheBEaST** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:25 pm

JValone wrote:I've always been of the the opinion that if you get the best player in the trade you've won that trade. Melo is far better than J-Rich/Crash, as much as I love having them, and he's younger on top of that. He's led his team to the playoffs in the WEST multiple times and it appears it's about to happen again. He has also shown considerable improvement in the low block and it's entirely impossible he could become an above-average defender.

The question you have to ask yourself is this: Can J-Rich/Crash take us anywhere significant anytime soon? Melo has a better chance of taking us further and his window of opportunity will be wide open for a long time. JR is just a throw in but he isn't a terrible throw in, he could give us a decent contribution.

It's sort of pointless to debate it though, the Nuggets would never make this deal because it's so lop-sided.

I agree that Denver would never do the deal, but could you imagine if they did?

Iverson/Atkins
Jrich/Kleiza
Gerald/Najera
Kmart/Nene
Camby/Hunter

Thats exactly the type of team that Iverson plays phenomenal on. That squad has Great defense and Great rebounding. Richardson could spread the floor for A.I and Gerald is the lock down defender they are lacking.

Melo is a superstar but they already have one of the best and this would make them a more complete team . Even when anthony isnt in the game, they are a top offensive team, if they improved their D (this trade)...

In other words, without glaring weakness' that their opponents target to exploit, They would be more dangerous imo.

JValone · Post #13 » by **JValone** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:35 pm

Yeah you're right, it could turn out good for both parties. The problem on the Nugget's end would be that building around Iverson is basically betting the farm on the next 3-4 years but if they were willing to take that path I'd be more than happy to see Melo be a Bobcat.

Post #14 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:45 am

Am I the only one that doesn't consider Gerald a "lock down defender"?

I wouldn't do this trade because we're trying to make a team that would win asap, but if my girlfriend found out that Boykins and Melo could be on the Bobcats she'd probably have a brain aneurysm... will test this in 10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...and a hilarious dance has ensued. Then she acted as if I had some sort of say in the matter...did another jig and then said we'd be moving to Charlotte for next season...

Post #15 » by **Paydro70** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:29 am

hahaha... anyway, no, Crash isn't a lockdown defender. I don't think we lose much defensive value, but I really don't think we pick up much offense either. There's no way Melo makes up for JRich and Crash, in my opinion, and even though I see JR Smith as having lots of potential, I don't think that we're made up for on this deal unless JR Smith becomes REALLY good.

e4Nf6 · Post #16 » by **e4Nf6** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:51 am

you all underestimate Melo...... he is in the same tier as Kobe/Lebron/Chris Paul, and Wallace and Richardson are not. I'm a big believer in the team who gets the best player won the trade, and that would definately be the team that gets Melo.

I understand that Anthony is sometimes less than maximally motivated on defense, but we are hardly a dominant defensive team anyway so what's to lose?

Post #17 » by **Paydro70** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:31 am

Melo is 100% not in that tier. Kobe is the least absurd of comparing him to that trio, but just for fun, Kobe has a better true shooting %, gets more assists, turns the ball over less, steals more, fouls more, is equal on the defensive boards, blocks just as many shots, and is a dramatically better defender. The only thing Melo offers over Kobe is offensive rebounding. Again, Kobe is the MOST comparable. LeBron blows him away, as does Paul.

Carmelo belongs in a second tier of stars with guys like Gasol, Kevin Martin, or Caron Butler. He's getting 21 PER this year, which is obviously great, but both JRich and Crash have been reliably 19 PER players. I'd much prefer that to a 21 and a 15.

hoops4life · Post #18 » by **hoops4life** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:40 am

As an outside viewer, I don't think that bobcats would/should do that.

SamBone · Post #19 » by **SamBone** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:10 pm

No way. I would do Melo for Crash and something else

JValone · Post #20 » by **JValone** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:19 pm

Melo is definitely on the bottom of the 1st tier of stars in the NBA. He's not as good as Lebron/Kobe/CP3 but he's only a bit below them. Look at how much he contributes to the Olympic team, it's obvious he's on par with those guys in terms of sheer talent.

The problem for Melo, and the reason he's criminally underrated, is because he's stuck on the Nuggets and they're stuck in the Western Conference. The West is insanely tough in this era. He has to go against Duncan/Kobe/CP3 along with several other dangerous squads like the Jazz, Suns, Rockets, and Warriors almost every night. Being able to finish 7th or 8th against that talent is a much bigger accomplishment then most realize. If Lebron and the Cavs were out West they probably wouldn't make the post-season this year.

He also suffers from the fact his team seems to have no focus or cohesive strategy. They're a giant mish-mash of talent. Camby is good, Martin is good, AI is great, but they don't play with a purpose like the Jazz/Hornets and it kills them. The Nuggets are one of the few teams in the league that can thump an elite team one night and then get blown out by a poor team the next. Melo is not in an environment that is conducive to winning and it's really not his fault.

I love Gerald and J-Rich, they are the two biggest reasons I am proud to be a Bobcats fan, but neither of them even approaches Melo. He's that good. If he can get the Nuggets in the playoffs out West he can get the Bobcats a 4 or 5 seed in our conference.