Why does everyone hate Paul Pierce?

Fencer reregistered · Post #21 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:27 am

I've been a committed fan of Pierce's ever since I learned, while the team was at rock bottom, that he'd ordered five custom-made chairs for his house with Celtics designs.

He's been above average in his commitment to the team and in his work ethic. I see no need to get down on him because he wasn't yet better.

Nor do I see any reason to get down on him for those areas in which he's downright mediocre. E.g., he's really mediocre at vocal leadership skills. He's not BAD at it as average human beings go -- but he's also not GOOD at it in the way one would hope for from somebody who's been a celebrity all his adult life, and who is a phenomenally talented athlete in a team sport.

But so what? I'm not going to get down on him just because there are numerous ways in which he falls short of Michael Jordan or Lebron James.

Fencer reregistered · Post #22 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:27 am

And Paul's toughness and physical fortitude are amazing -- few basketball players have ever matched him. That's highly admirable right there.

Hood President · Post #23 » by **Hood President** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:13 am

im a atlanta hawks fan but im also a paul pierce fan because pierce was the first star i actually watched when i finally was starting to watch more nba games.

1.) Pierces game isnt viewed as boring at all. it is mored view as slow and mithotical. Someone said it best a while back when they said pierce is a poor mans kobe bryant. they both can drive, hit the three anytime, defend, pass and rebound. but kobe does alll those things better than pierce.

[#2 is where I THINK pierce really gets judged unfairly.

2.) Pierce is viewed as a looser for his teams not being consistantly good. The thing that ticks me off is kg never gets the same criticism that pierce gets. The only thing that separates him and pierce is an mvp.

[#3 may be the key reason]

3.) He has been consistantly good year in and year out. He never had amazing season that made you say wow. he seems to be an automatic 23 points every season(until this year). kobe, tmac, iverson, shaq, has did something that pierce has and will never do and that lead the league in scoring. and those guys has had seasons where they was just the god of the nba. in 10 15 years those guys i mention will probably go down as being better and/or more adored by nba fans. pierce is basically alex english. how many times do you hear his name come up when talking about great players?.....none exactly.

Datruth345 · Post #24 » by **Datruth345** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:22 am

Pierce 4 MVP wrote:^ gotta say... great post for being drunk lol

haha thanks

you don't want to know how long that took to type though

campybatman · Post #25 » by **campybatman** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:48 am

Hood President wrote:
1.) Pierces game isnt viewed as boring at all. it is mored view as slow and mithotical. Someone said it best a while back when they said pierce is a poor mans kobe bryant. they both can drive, hit the three anytime, defend, pass and rebound. but kobe does alll those things better than pierce.

3.) He has been consistantly good year in and year out. He never had amazing season that made you say wow. he seems to be an automatic 23 points every season(until this year). kobe, tmac, iverson, shaq, has did something that pierce has and will never do and that lead the league in scoring. and those guys has had seasons where they was just the god of the nba. in 10 15 years those guys i mention will probably go down as being better and/or more adored by nba fans. pierce is basically alex english. how many times do you hear his name come up when talking about great players?.....none exactly.

I disagree with you on specific things said in numbers one and three.

Paul Pierce is a rich man's Paul Pierce. Bryant is a more athletic player than Pierce. Pierce is a slasher but he's quite strong and can post up if he gets the ball on the block. He possesses outside range nearly anywhere on the floor and is a scorer from the free throw line as well. Few players in the league can draw a foul as often as Pierce can when the referees are doing their jobs fairly. The influence of Thibodeau has brought out the defensive capabilities in both Pierce and Ray Allen. Pierce always could play defense when his mind is set to do so. This season, he has shown that he deserves recognition for playing exceptional one-on-one defense against the average players and star players alike like a Bryant. Although, Bryant being an elite defender is overrated in my opinion. Both players are capable defenders. In my opinion, I see Bryant as more of a guard and Pierce more as a forward with guard skills to boot. So, I don't see how Pierce is a poor man's anybody playing today. Butler is a taller and similar version of Pierce but I don't see Pierce being like another player.

I don't know about that. In my opinion, Paul Pierce in the 2001-2002 season where he lead the NBA in total points was awesome. He with Antoine Walker, lead the Celtics to the playoffs for the first time in seven years I believe and the team would go on to reach the eastern conference finals against the Nets. Yeah, any Boston fan that recalls that season knows that Pierce was impressive that season. By far, Pierce's best seasons statistically were from 2000-2001 through 2005-2006 seasons. Those seasons were simply amazing in my mind. And his rookie season statistically was quite comparable to Vince Carter who won the rookie of the year that year. You couldn't go wrong awarding it to either player.

Hood President · Post #26 » by **Hood President** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:33 am

pierce plays just like aslow version of kobe IMO.

Post #27 » by **sully00** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:08 am

Pierce reminds me a lot of Barkley. Barkley was veiwed as a bad guy early in his career only to become a fan and certainly a media favorite later on.

I think that Pierce has two different issues. In Boston he has to deal with Ghost of Larry. The perception that Bird made his teamates better and could win with any 4 scrubs. Never mind the fact that Bird lined up with HOF after HOF and Pierce has lined up with one, who was damn near 40 at the time prior to this season. It is nonsense but it is what he faces here.

Nationally, Paul is a **** talker and chest thumper. He acts like a superstar and he is only a star in most people's eyes. His game is also bully like. He physically overpowers his opponent at a postion that tends to be more about skill and athleticism. He goes through them as opposed to over them. He is also guilty by association in the sense that until this season his highest profile teamates were Toine, Ricky, and Wally all guys who are generally disliked around the league and media for an assortment of reasons.

Now if he gets a ring on his finger all of the things that people dislike about him they will admire, because they will no longer be the attributes that you can't win with but the things that make up a champion. He also has a better class of friends, KG and Ray are as classy as they get, but have struggled to get along with certain teamates, some the same guys that Pierce has done the best he could with, and now he has seamlessly meshed with two other superstars.

On top of that Pierce is funny as hell, even if Godmoney can't handle his sense of humor. So some postseason success and exposure will make him a media darling, and everyone will realize that part of Paul's problem is that the high profile basketball columnists in this city are all AARP members who are as guilty as anyone of comparing him to Bird because 1988 was the last time they had a clue (Murph and Bulpett excluded).

GuyClinch · Post #28 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:31 pm

Any personality "flaws' that PP may have will become history if he wins a championship. People love a winner. If Manny wasn't a two time champion he would be HATED round Boston, IMHO.

Obviously I don't know the guy up close and personal but PP seems to have a better personality then alot of professional athletes. I mean you ever listen to Roger Clemens?!

I always had the impression that Paul was actually popular among his peers.. unlike Kobe who always seems to be a kind of a loner.

Pete

Rocky5000 · Post #29 » by **Rocky5000** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:40 pm

People hate Pierce for much of the same reasons that Larry Bird was hated by opposing teams. In terms of flashy athletic ability and body conditioning, Pierce seems average at first glance. However when you see him play and just tear the opposing team apart with slashing and step back jumpers, you realize that he is an amazing talent. From an opposing fans viewpoint, they say, 'He's not that good', because what he is doing on the court doesn't appear to be too difficult. He's not doing mid-air acrobatics like Dwayne Wade, and he's not always jumping three and a half feet off the ground like Carter and Lebron. It was the same way with Larry, he had a very solid game, where he didn't have to always out quick everyone to get the job done. They hate that someone, 'who's not that good', can make their teams look foolish.

GuyClinch · Post #30 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:52 pm

I dunno. I always think the "Pierce is slow" crowd only watches him on TV.
He has a pretty decent combo of size and speed - much like a taller Baron Davis.

Then again I honestly think LB back in his prime move pretty well for a 6'9" guy. Powe for example can outleap him - but LB would beat him down the court..

Pete

DelMonte West · Post #31 » by **DelMonte West** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:25 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Pierce has PLENTY of fans. Not "everyone" hates him. <g> Ask any of his haters they are frustrated by the Pierce fans on this board to no end.

One little thing that irks me a tiny bit is the media seems to forget Pierce was injured most of last year when doing the "Garnett is MVP" spiel. They also forget that Garnett didn't win that many games either.

Pete

I think the reasons he isn't as popular as others of comparable (or even less) skill/talent has to do with what you've posted, but also due to his relative lack of athleticism compared to other swingmen in the league (and by athleticism, I'm strictly speaking leaping ability). Even when Toronto was racking up poor records year after year, Carter was among the leading vote-getters for the all-star game.

Ditto on the media's inability to comprehend Pierce's injuries last year. When I get to hear excuses for teams like the Bulls and Heat ("ravaged with injuries" is an oft-repeated quote) only for Pierce to get the shaft in favor of KG/Ray Allen taking 99% of the credit, it's a bit much.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #32 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:53 pm

Well, for the record, I can honestly say I've been a Pierce fan from the day they drafted him. Even though his meltdown in Indy was stupid, I've always been a fan.

GuyClinch · Post #33 » by **GuyClinch** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:36 am

I think the reasons he isn't as popular as others of comparable (or even less) skill/talent has to do with what you've posted, but also due to his relative lack of athleticism compared to other swingmen in the league (and by athleticism, I'm strictly speaking leaping ability). Even when Toronto was racking up poor records year after year, Carter was among the leading vote-getters for the all-star game.

Oh I agree - PP isn't as popular as he should be. That's a far cry from everyone hating him.

PP in his prime though was no more then a few inches off the high leapers. He did the HS slam dunk contests too..

Ditto on the media's inability to comprehend Pierce's injuries last year. When I get to hear excuses for teams like the Bulls and Heat ("ravaged with injuries" is an oft-repeated quote) only for Pierce to get the shaft in favor of KG/Ray Allen taking 99% of the credit, it's a bit much.

I agree. I REALLY don't like to whine about the "media" all the time but how the conviently forget about PP injury last year is annoying. C's would have been like Atlanta this year had PP been healthy.

Pete

greenbeans · Post #34 » by **greenbeans** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:30 pm

GuyClinch wrote:He did the HS slam dunk contests too..

you ever watch that?? it was him and Vince in the finals if i remember correctly. he had some funky hair too

MyInsatiableOne · Post #35 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:28 pm

That was probably the last time Vince cared about anything, huh?

greenbeans · Post #36 » by **greenbeans** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:15 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:That was probably the last time Vince cared about anything, huh?

have they given out the last checks of the year yet??

GuyClinch · Post #37 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:49 pm

Paul Pierce HS dunk contest stuff..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNUsoxjaecA

I mean don't get me wrong Vince is the better dunker but this PP is earthbound like LB and doesn't rely on 'athleticism" gets a bit out of hand.

Heck LB needed his athleticism. When he lost his mobility he wasn't as effective. His stats hide how much his defense had slipped by the end (92). And don't even get me started on McHale post ankle injury.

The 28 vs. 34 year old LB is a night and day difference. This is one reason why I hope we win it NOW. i have little faith in the 34 year old Pierce. Not to say he COULDN'T do it but the aging thing is a real concern.

Aging is so hard to predict.. For every Sam Cassell there are several Raef Lafrenz - possibly the oldest sub 30 player ever (when he was with the C's) though ironically Walker is another guy whose career evaporated sooner then you might expect.

Pete

MyInsatiableOne · Post #38 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:10 pm

greenbeans wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

have they given out the last checks of the year yet??

NormanDale · Post #39 » by **NormanDale** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:12 am

The closest comparison to Pierce, in my opinion, is Carmelo Anthony, in that both are guys with solid but unspectacular athleticism, who are great scorers because they are technicians, and know how to score.

I agree with the people who have said that one of the reasons Pierce is less popular than some players is that he doesn't jump through the roof and appear on sportscenter every night, but that makes him so much more fun to watch from my perspective.

One of my favorite things about Pierce is that, when he drives to the basket, you never see him back down from a shot-blocker. Sometimes he surprises the shotblocker with his aggressiveness and ducks on a him despite not jumping through the roof. Other times, he shifts the ball to the side at the last minute and induces the guy to hack his arms.

There is no physical reason why dozens of nba players shouldn't be able to do this, but pierce has a fiercer mentality and a better feel for how to score than the vast majority of players. It's fascinating to watch, and a reason why he is popular among a subset of fans, as evidenced by his surprisingly high jersey sales over the years.

There is a related reason why he draws "hatred" that I've noticed this year by comparing him to ray allen. When allen is ineffective, it comes in the form of him missing jumpshots or throwing bad passes from the perimeter, things that are not particularly noticeable. When PP is ineffective, it usually comes in the form of drives to the basket that get stuffed, which then look ill-advised and out-of-control, drawing the ire of fans.

I was watching a game with a friend of mine earlier in the season and he was talking about how badly pierce was playing, and it seemed like allen was playing a decent, though not great, game. at the end of the day, though, they had the same number of turnovers, and pp had more points, a slightly better fg%, and more assists for the game. i think this is common, due to his style of play.