MVP Watch 2008... Part 5

[Slava]

again Kobe doesn't make it easier on teammates at all. he sets them up for three pointers. not in their sweetspots. just open three pointers. Paul gives people dunks, layups, open mid range AND open three point shots. Plus, his foul trouble was bull last night. the refs knew that this was like a playoff game and they shouldve officiated it like one. they called 2 ticky tack calls on Paul and that caused him to sit for 5 minutes of the 4th quarter.

Ronny Turiaf/Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum would disagree. Turiaf has had his share of wide open dunks while runnning straight into the paint on multiple occassions. Kobe makes it a point to get Gasol good lucks in the 15 ft range and inside and Andrew Bynum's career year can be attributed to the brand of basketball Kobe played earlier in the season.

You need to follow the team more closely before making comparisons bro.

[Original Baller]

if Kobe don't win it this year

will he ever win the MVP???

it would truly be a disgrace in NBA history if one of its greatest players of all time hasn't won the MVP and it would devalue the award greatly.

I mean its already embrassing and ridiculous that Steve Nash has more MVP's than Shaq.

[Derekman]

Looks like NO is going to lose and the Lakers are going to take the top spot, so the only thing Paul had on Kobe is gone. If the Lakers beat the Spurs 2morrow, it's Kobe's award.

[Doctor MJ]

if Kobe don't win it this year

will he ever win the MVP???

it would truly be a disgrace in NBA history if one of its greatest players of all time hasn't won the MVP and it would devalue the award greatly.

I mean its already embrassing and ridiculous that Steve Nash has more MVP's than Shaq.

Let's see...

Probably not.

Not really. Players rated above Kobe in all-time have missed out too.

Yes it is embarassing when the best player in the game treats the regular season like a joke.

[Doctor MJ]

Looks like NO is going to lose and the Lakers are going to take the top spot, so the only thing Paul had on Kobe is gone. If the Lakers beat the Spurs 2morrow, it's Kobe's award.

Yeah, it probably won't even take that. Paul needed to end the season like a badass to win it (for me at least), and he really hasn't.

[Kobay]

Cp3 now that the target is on his back he's facing some heavy pressure defense. May be next year after he gets used to it.

[Original Baller]

Let's see...

Probably not.

Not really. Players rated above Kobe in all-time have missed out too.

Yes it is embarassing when the best player in the game treats the regular season like a joke.

name one player currently better in NBA history than Kobe w/o an MVP???

only person close is Jerry West and I think most people have said Kobe's better (see ESPN's all time 2-guard rankings)

plus Shaq from '00-'02 was the best player in the league and was on the best team.....he shoulda won 3 MVP's even if he didn't play some games....when he played......and especially post-all star break......he was a BEAST

no way AI or Duncan were better.....only person close to him was his teammate......Kobe

[fadinaway]

Hmm, if the Lakers take care of business, they'll have a better seed than NO. What excuse can they use to deny Kobe now?

[Doctor MJ]

-= original quote snipped =-



name one player currently better in NBA history than Kobe w/o an MVP???

only person close is Jerry West and I think most people have said Kobe's better (see ESPN's all time 2-guard rankings)

plus Shaq from '00-'02 was the best player in the league and was on the best team.....he shoulda won 3 MVP's even if he didn't play some games....when he played......and especially post-all star break......he was a BEAST

no way AI or Duncan were better.....only person close to him was his teammate......Kobe

Let's see...West, Baylor, Havlicek, Barry, Frazier were all rated above him when we did our Top 100 project here. That'd change some if we did it now, but not ridiculously so. There'd still be strong debate between him and them.

Again with Shaq, he was clearly the best player around, but he never played up to his potential in the regular season after '99-00. I would be fine with him having won in '00-01, but he still didn't turn it on that year until the last part of the regular season.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

no way AI or Duncan were better.....only person close to him was his teammate......Kobe

That's a Kobe cult member right there. Duncan wasn't close but Bryant was? Ooookay.

Hmm, if the Lakers take care of business, they'll have a better seed than NO. What excuse can they use to deny Kobe now?

There were no excuses from most the people saying it was CP3's to win. Simple observation. You're right, though. Assuming the Lakers win, Kobe is your 2008 MVP.

[Doctor MJ]

Hmm, if the Lakers take care of business, they'll have a better seed than NO. What excuse can they use to deny Kobe now?

Silly excuses like "negligible team success", eh?

They'll give him award, I'll be shocked if they don't.

[JDawg]

Hmm, if the Lakers take care of business, they'll have a better seed than NO. What excuse can they use to deny Kobe now?

1) They'll come up with something. Have no worry.

2) Dont discoutn Houston. Its weird I know.

BUT, if the lakers win tomorrow they will have WON the season series agaisnt ALL the following teams:

Spurs
Hornets
Suns
Jazz
Nuggets
Warriors
Mavericks

Thats a season series win against EVERY team in the west......

EXCEPT HOUSTON.

Houston beat the lakers 2-1 in the reg. season.

If the Lakers and Rockets win out to go 57-25 AND by the Spurs lose to the lakers obviously tomorrow AND the hornets lose to Dallas,

THEN that means Houston ends up with the #1 record. Weird??? I know.

However, IFFFF NOH wins out from now on and also goes 57-25 by beating Dallas and Clippers in remaining games,

they FIRST decide the tiebreak within the division between Hornets and Rockets, which Hornets have WON and therefore Houston falls to 3 while NOH is 2.

In other words, if the Lakers win out, either Houston has to lose a game OR NOH has to help the lakers by winning out.

Its the most convoluted thing you've ever seen, but it's the truth.

[fadinaway]

There were no excuses from most the people saying it was CP3's to win. Simple observation. You're right, though. Assuming the Lakers win, Kobe is your 2008 MVP.

It was a ridiculous premise from the start with the WC so tight. A 1 or 2 game difference doesn't mean anything especially for a team that's had injuries like LA.

It was just a copout by people who needed justification for snubbing Kobe again. They figured NO would hold a 2.5 game lead with 5 games to go. Oops!

[Don Draper]

KG is the MVP.
Chris Paul maybe.

If Kobe Bryant wins the MVP it will only show that the MVP is just a popularity between sportswriters and ESPN. Yes Kobe is 1 of the 3 best players in the league hands down. But Kevin Garnett changed the culture of a whole franchise. Not only is he clearly the best player on the best team (which shouldn't be the deciding factor) , but he turn ed the worst defense in the NBA into the best, his team has the best turnaround in NBA history, he ws the best defensive player in the NBA, and his team might win 66 games. As great as Kobe is and as tough as the West is can we really deny KG.

KG for MVP.

[Doctor MJ]

It was a ridiculous premise from the start with the WC so tight. A 1 or 2 game difference doesn't mean anything especially for a team that's had injuries like LA.

It was just a copout by people who needed justification for snubbing Kobe again. They figured NO would hold a 2.5 game lead with 5 games to go. Oops!

Well I'll speak for myself as someone who put Paul at #1 when his team took first place. For me it wasn't simply that his team was in 1st, but that his performance in the 2nd half of the year was just astounding. In March for example, he went for 24 points on 55% shooting, and 13 assists on a 5.4 A/TO ratio. That level is clearly better than the level Kobe's played at over the 82 game season (and if you deny this, you have no credibility). With Paul's team in first, I wasn't willing to let the fact that Paul wasn't always so astounding be held against him. If you close the season like that and doing so consistently over the 82 games season probably wouldn't have helped your team's standing (already in 1st), I can't justify going against you.

But what has Paul done in April? Hasn't been that great. So that time when he was so amazing is just one part of the year to me now. Even if NO pulls out the top seed, my vote will go to Kobe.

[B-Scott]

The MVP is Kobe's if the Lakers win there last 2 games.

[Seanman]

KG is the MVP.
Chris Paul maybe.

If Kobe Bryant wins the MVP it will only show that the MVP is just a popularity between sportswriters and ESPN. Yes Kobe is 1 of the 3 best players in the league hands down. But Kevin Garnett changed the culture of a whole franchise. Not only is he clearly the best player on the best team (which shouldn't be the deciding factor) , but he turn ed the worst defense in the NBA into the best, his team has the best turnaround in NBA history, he ws the best defensive player in the NBA, and his team might win 66 games. As great as Kobe is and as tough as the West is can we really deny KG.

KG for MVP.

This sentence clearly proves you don't know anything about Kobe's standing with the sports media in general.

Can't disagree with KB/KG/CP winning it whichever way it goes though.

[JDawg]

-= original quote snipped =-



Let's see...West, Baylor, Havlicek, Barry, Frazier were all rated above him when we did our Top 100 project here. That'd change some if we did it now, but not ridiculously so. There'd still be strong debate between him and them.

Again with Shaq, he was clearly the best player around, but he never played up to his potential in the regular season after '99-00. I would be fine with him having won in '00-01, but he still didn't turn it on that year until the last part of the regular season.

Baylor??
Hondo???
Barry???
Frazier???

ARE YOU ON crack tonight Doc.... there is not ONE MEASURE to prove those guys better than Kobe.

Not titles
Not stats
Not scoring
Not efficiency

NOTHING.

Those guys are a tier below Kobe man.

Kobe is considered a top 20 player all time right now.

He's got more ALL NBA teams and ALL D teams than any of those players save Hondo.

Hondo has more rings, but worse stats.

Baylor never won a title and in fact was on the team with West and Wilt that LOST the title to the Knicks, if im not mistaken. And Kobe has scorn more prolificly than even Baylor has.

Basically, the only guy that makes your list legitimate is West and people have already anointed Kobe over West as the #2 SG all time.

For you to even place Kobe down there shows something ridiculous.

Its your own list man. You go to any all time list right now by any media pundit and Kobe is a top 20 player...AT WORST top 25.

Even renowned Kobe HATER, Jordan23Forever, has conceeded as much. And if he says that, you can BET he's at leaet that high cause J23F wouldnt give Kobe a compliment if his life depended on it.

[B-Scott]

KG is the MVP.
Chris Paul maybe.

If Kobe Bryant wins the MVP it will only show that the MVP is just a popularity between sportswriters and ESPN. Yes Kobe is 1 of the 3 best players in the league hands down. But Kevin Garnett changed the culture of a whole franchise. Not only is he clearly the best player on the best team (which shouldn't be the deciding factor) , but he turn ed the worst defense in the NBA into the best, his team has the best turnaround in NBA history, he ws the best defensive player in the NBA, and his team might win 66 games. As great as Kobe is and as tough as the West is can we really deny KG.

KG for MVP.

I disagree with your reason if Kobe won the MVP. Im not saying KG or Chris Paul do not deserve the MVP, but i disagree with your reason that it's a popularity contest. All 3 players have led there teams and deserve the MVP.

The difference is Kobe is in probably the toughest conference in NBA history. I mean the Warriors could end up winning 50 games and still not make the playoffs. Whoever is the 1# seed out of this conference, if they get the MVP, there should be no hating.

Lakers have a great shot to get that 1# seed now.

[Doctor MJ]

Baylor??
Hondo???
Barry???
Frazier???

ARE YOU ON crack tonight Doc.... there is not ONE MEASURE to prove those guys better than Kobe.

Not titles
Not stats
Not scoring
Not efficiency

NOTHING.

Those guys are a tier below Kobe man.

Kobe is considered a top 20 player all time right now.

He's got more ALL NBA teams and ALL D teams than any of those players save Hondo.

Hondo has more rings, but worse stats.

Baylor never won a title and in fact was on the team with West and Wilt that LOST the title to the Knicks, if im not mistaken. And Kobe has scorn more prolificly than even Baylor has.

Basically, the only guy that makes your list legitimate is West and people have already anointed Kobe over West as the #2 SG all time.

For you to even place Kobe down there shows something ridiculous.

Its your own list man. You go to any all time list right now by any media pundit and Kobe is a top 20 player...AT WORST top 25.

Even renowned Kobe HATER, Jordan23Forever, has conceeded as much. And if he says that, you can BET he's at leaet that high cause J23F wouldnt give Kobe a compliment if his life depended on it.

First off, when did I ever say that Kobe wasn't Top 25? If you think the guys I listed there aren't Top 25, your entire perception of basketball history needs to be thought out better.

Specifics:

Titles? Well titles as #1 player, Kobe = 0.
Stats, etc? Very much debatable. Have you really looked at say, Havlicek's stats?