Rebuild Idea

[Wade-A-Holic]

Objectives
- Add defense and intangibles
- Add young talent
- Clean up cap situation (Aim for '10 summer for having cap room)
- Break up Mo/Redd duo
- Get a more physical, steady PF to spell/backup Yi

1) Trade Mo Williams and our 2nd round pick for Darius Miles and #13.

Miles never joins the team. His contract expires the same year as Simmons'. This brings us another young player to mold along with improving our cap situation for the future.

2) Trade Charlie Villanueva, Charlie Bell, Desmond Mason and Dan Gadzuric to Cleveland for Ben Wallace, Joe Smith (expiring), and the #19 pick.

Many in Cleveland consider the trade for Wallace a mistake. They miss Gooden's ability to score and finish. Villanueva gives them that again. Charlie Bell seems to be a perfect complimentary player for LeBron. Gadzuric gives them depth and athleticism at center. He's another guy that might benefit from LeBron's presence because all he'll have to do is rebound and provide energy when he's in the game (catching LeBron's passes might be too much to ask though). Mason is a nice addition as well. He'll help them much more than Damon Jones will.

For Milwaukee, Wallace and Smith will be good backups and great influences on both Yi and Bogut. They can can really be leaders on this team and turn the tide in terms of defensive attitude and overall professionalism. Wallace's contract expires the same year of Simmons and we shave a year off Gadzuric's deal. Also, if we hire Carlisle, Wallace has some history with him so that might be beneficial as well. The pick helps too.

Draft
#7: Russell Westbrook
Nice PG prospect who will instantly improve our perimeter defense. He's cat quick and a good team player.
#13: SG/SF Brandon Rush
Solid, yet unspectacular wing who can shoot and bother opposing wings with his length and quickness. Fundamentally sound and solid.
#19: SF Joe Alexander
Considered a probable lottery pick if he stays in school for another year. Alexander is a very good SF prospect who will need a year to improve his jump shot and ball handling. He will rebound, defend, block shots, and add a ton of athleticism at the small forward spot in the future. I love his work ethic and the intensity he plays with is infectious.

3) Sign Chris Duhon. We'll need a PG on this team with some NBA experience. Duhon will play defense and not turn the ball over. As Westbrook and Sessions develop, he'll defer to them.

Also sign Michael Doleac.

PG: Duhon/Westbrook/Sessions (only temporary)
SG: Redd/Rush/Westbrook
SF: Simmons/Rush/Alexander
PF: Yi/Smith/Alexander
C: Bogut/Wallace/Doleac

If things pan out reasonably, we're looking at a good chunk of cap room in the 2010 off season when Wallace, Simmons, and Miles come off the books.

I understand the SF spot still sucks for now, but that's only while Rush and Alexander improve. By the time Simmons' deal is up, it ought to be a position of strength.

I see this as regressing some now, but adding young talent for the future and veterans who will be role models for that young talent.

[ReasonablySober]

You really have to get off this Joe Alexander bandwagon. He's too slow and has too poor a shot to be an NBA SF, but he's too small and not enough of an athlete to be a PF.

Anyway, I like the rest of your rebuild, though with one of the three top twenty picks (maybe two of the three) I'd look to address the PF and C situations. Smith and Wallace aren't spring chickens.

[Wade-A-Holic]

You really have to get off this Joe Alexander bandwagon. He's too slow and has too poor a shot to be an NBA SF, but he's too small and not enough of an athlete to be a PF.

Anyway, I like the rest of your rebuild, though with one of the three top twenty picks (maybe two of the three) I'd look to address the PF and C situations. Smith and Wallace aren't spring chickens.

I will not get off the Joe Alexander bandwagon until he actually busts Which he won't. I understand we're at a point on him where we'll have to agree to disagree, though. I will never understand your issue with Alexander's athleticism though. He moves very well for a 6'8 guy, is strong and getting stronger, and he can jump out of the gym.

This video shows he can do a little bit of everything, IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyPu8AWp ... re=related

Agreed about the PF/C spots. I guess, for your sake, you could just sub out Alexander for Darrell Arthur.

[bigkurty]

To me we are getting screwed with that Ben Wallace trade. I understand your points about leadership and stuff and they would be decent fits but I just think we could do better for that package of outgoing players.

[Wade-A-Holic]

To me we are getting screwed with that Ben Wallace trade. I understand your points about leadership and stuff and they would be decent fits but I just think we could do better for that package of outgoing players.

It's also a money saving move. We cut a total of 15 million off of the contracts of Bell and Gadzuric beginning after the 2009-2010 season. Not to mention we won't have to bother re-signing Villanueva, who has too much value to just let him walk but isn't anyone I'm interested in handing a long term deal.

I understand your point though. Cleveland definitely gets more talent in this deal. That's why I added the pick.

[bigkurty]

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It's also a money saving move. We cut a total of 15 million off of the contracts of Bell and Gadzuric beginning after the 2009-2010 season. Not to mention we won't have to bother re-signing Villanueva, who has too much value to just let him walk but isn't anyone I'm interested in handing a long term deal.

I understand your point though. Cleveland definitely gets more talent in this deal. That's why I added the pick.

Here is an interesting question I was just thinking about, what do you guys think each of our players would be worth for contracts that expire in a year and a draft pick? For example, say you could trade CV for an expiring contract of a player with zero value and a draft pick, how high would the pick have to be to make you pull the trigger on the deal? Or a better way to think about it just for arguments sake if it was possible might be

If you could trade CV straight up for a draft pick, what draft slot do you think is fair value for him?

To me CV is worth at least a 15 pick straight up and I think I could argue that his value is worth up to a #10 pick.

[Wade-A-Holic]

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Here is an interesting question I was just thinking about, what do you guys think each of our players would be worth for contracts that expire in a year and a draft pick? For example, say you could trade CV for an expiring contract of a player with zero value and a draft pick, how high would the pick have to be to make you pull the trigger on the deal? Or a better way to think about it just for arguments sake if it was possible might be

If you could trade CV straight up for a draft pick, what draft slot do you think is fair value for him?

To me CV is worth at least a 15 pick straight up and I think I could argue that his value is worth up to a #10 pick.

Really depends on the team. I've been wondering what kind of move we could make with Memphis regarding him, considering they have a bit of a log jam of young point guards and really only have an undersized Hakim Warrick at power forward. (not to mention a guard will probably be their best choice in this draft where they pick)

How about Gadzuric, Villanueva, and #7 for Conley, Collins (expiring), and their 1st round pick from the Lakers? Probably a rip-off for us...

If you're looking to dump salary for expiring contracts, though, Cleveland is the team to do it with.

[bigkurty]

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How about Gadzuric, Villanueva, and #7 for Conley, Collins (expiring), and their 1st round pick from the Lakers? Probably a rip-off for us...

I would do that in a heart beat. Although for some reason I keep thinking we are going to get a top 3 pick *Knock on wood* which would hopefully make these debates pointless. If that were to happen, this off season could be truly amazing with the hirings of Hammond and hopefully a soon to be veteran coach.

[smalls]

i think the new motto for all the sane people in this forum and all the crazy trade ideas is what Detroit fans learned.
IN JOHN WE TRUST!!!

[VegasKuehl]

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I will not get off the Joe Alexander bandwagon until he actually busts Which he won't. I understand we're at a point on him where we'll have to agree to disagree, though. I will never understand your issue with Alexander's athleticism though. He moves very well for a 6'8 guy, is strong and getting stronger, and he can jump out of the gym.

This video shows he can do a little bit of everything, IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyPu8AWp ... re=related

Agreed about the PF/C spots. I guess, for your sake, you could just sub out Alexander for Darrell Arthur.

People said the same thing about one Mike Gansey a few years back. Tall, slow white guys with a good jumper usually don't do anything in the nba, other than be spot up 3 point shooters.

[showtimesam]

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Really depends on the team. I've been wondering what kind of move we could make with Memphis regarding him, considering they have a bit of a log jam of young point guards and really only have an undersized Hakim Warrick at power forward. (not to mention a guard will probably be their best choice in this draft where they pick)

How about Gadzuric, Villanueva, and #7 for Conley, Collins (expiring), and their 1st round pick from the Lakers? Probably a rip-off for us...

If you're looking to dump salary for expiring contracts, though, Cleveland is the team to do it with.

I think the bucks culd get conley if memphis lands rose. However, no way do they take on Gadz's contract. Memphis is about cutting salary, and if anything they will move mike miller for expirings this offseason, but they will not add anything to that payroll..

[Wade-A-Holic]

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People said the same thing about one Mike Gansey a few years back. Tall, slow white guys with a good jumper usually don't do anything in the nba, other than be spot up 3 point shooters.

Alexander is not slow nor is he a spot up shooter. It's almost as if people are assuming he's not athletic because he's white. When you prove to me that Mike Gansey could ever dunk a basketball from the free throw line or do half the things that Alexander is able to do athletically, we'll talk. Gansey was a 6'4 guard that severely lacked quickness, speed, and leaping ability.

I can live with somebody not liking the pick or believing there are better choices out there, but if you're going to criticize a player for something, you should actually know his weaknesses. Calling Joe Alexander unathletic is simply an uninformed opinion.

[ReasonablySober]

Whether or not he's a good athlete or not, I never saw that demonstrated on the court. When guarded closely by someone with the ability to stay in front of him (and in the NBA that's going to be everyone at the SF position), he often settled for turnaround jumpers and fadeaways, instead of going to his bread and butter around the hoop.

If he had legit PF size he'd a be a nice prospect. I love the footwork and touch in the paint. But he's not a good shooter from the outside and he doesn't have the quickness or ability to take his man off the dribble. Honestly, when I see Joe Alexander I see Mike Wilkinson.

[Wade-A-Holic]

Whether or not he's a good athlete or not, I never saw that demonstrated on the court. When guarded closely by someone with the ability to stay in front of him (and in the NBA that's going to be everyone at the SF position), he often settled for turnaround jumpers and fadeaways, instead of going to his bread and butter around the hoop.

If he had legit PF size he'd a be a nice prospect. I love the footwork and touch in the paint. But he's not a good shooter from the outside and he doesn't have the quickness or ability to take his man off the dribble. Honestly, when I see Joe Alexander I see Mike Wilkinson.

That's fine. We're just seeing things quite differently with him then. In his defense, the turnaround jumper IS one of his bread and butter moves. He's very good at it. His jumper isn't bad, either. It's just inconsistent right now and still a work in progress - which is directly tied to his ability to drive past people. Once he starts keeping defenders honest with a consistent jumper, he'll start blowing by people. Redd sure as hell wasn't driving past anyone before he started knocking down jumpers. He used to be a big post up guard, which is hard to even imagine at this point.

[ReasonablySober]

If he got a good, consistent jumper we'd be talking about someone with a spot in the NBA I think. I definitely think it's possible; it's not an ugly shot by any means. But whether he's rich man's Mike Wilkinson or Linas Kleiza (who's become a good player for the Nugs), he's still not someone worth considering in the lotto.

[Wade-A-Holic]

If he got a good, consistent jumper we'd be talking about someone with a spot in the NBA I think. I definitely think it's possible; it's not an ugly shot by any means. But whether he's rich man's Mike Wilkinson or Linas Kleiza (who's become a good player for the Nugs), he's still not someone worth considering in the lotto.

I agree that adding a consistent jump shot is unquestionably vital to his success at the NBA level. I still differ with you in that I think you're selling his quickness and footspeed short with those comparisons. I realize he's not Gerald Wallace, but I think he at least has the quickness and footspeed of a guy like Andres Nocioni, who does a good job defensively and gets to the basket at a decent rate offensively. I'd probably start considering Alexander any time starting at around the 12th or 13th pick, depending on what's still there.

[NotYoAvgNBAFan]

You really have to get off this Joe Alexander bandwagon. He's too slow and has too poor a shot to be an NBA SF, but he's too small and not enough of an athlete to be a PF.

Anyway, I like the rest of your rebuild, though with one of the three top twenty picks (maybe two of the three) I'd look to address the PF and C situations. Smith and Wallace aren't spring chickens.

DJ White or Kevin Love would help as well as Beasley.

Dont bring Ben Wallace here...now. Too late for that.

[Wade-A-Holic]

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DJ White or Kevin Love would help as well as Beasley.

Dont bring Ben Wallace here...now. Too late for that.

Bringing Ben Wallace here wouldn't be so much for his ability at this point. He'd only be a backup. It would mostly be because his huge salary expires at a convenient time and he would serve as an incredibly positive influence on Yi, Bogut, and our other young guys.