MVP Watch 2008... Part 5

[Tesla]

If the Lakers win the next two games, Kobe is the MVP, and my choice. Chris Paul a very close second, and KG third.

To me the whole time, it came down to who would finish with the better record between Kobe and Paul (granted it was a top record in the West, even better if the best record in the West).

[ILikeTheGrizz]

There were no excuses from most the people saying it was CP3's to win. Simple observation. You're right, though. Assuming the Lakers win, Kobe is your 2008 MVP.

It was a ridiculous premise from the start with the WC so tight. A 1 or 2 game difference doesn't mean anything especially for a team that's had injuries like LA.

No, it wasn't. Kobe's had to deal with injuries. Paul has had one of the best seasons ever by a PG (Kobe hasn't had one of the best seasons by a SG even this decade, although it's been great). So that's a wash. I'm sorry, but it is. Record determines the tie-breaker.

It was just a copout by people who needed justification for snubbing Kobe again. They figured NO would hold a 2.5 game lead with 5 games to go. Oops!

Everyone is trying to screw Kobe, I'm sure. The guy who started an All-Star game when he couldn't start on his own team is now complaining about popularity. That's classic.

Baylor??
Hondo???
Barry???
Frazier???

ARE YOU ON crack tonight Doc.... there is not ONE MEASURE to prove those guys better than Kobe.

Not titles
Not stats
Not scoring
Not efficiency

NOTHING.

Those guys are a tier below Kobe man.

Kobe is considered a top 20 player all time right now.

He's got more ALL NBA teams and ALL D teams than any of those players save Hondo.

Hondo has more rings, but worse stats.

Baylor never won a title and in fact was on the team with West and Wilt that LOST the title to the Knicks, if im not mistaken. And Kobe has scorn more prolificly than even Baylor has.

Basically, the only guy that makes your list legitimate is West and people have already anointed Kobe over West as the #2 SG all time.

For you to even place Kobe down there shows something ridiculous.

Its your own list man. You go to any all time list right now by any media pundit and Kobe is a top 20 player...AT WORST top 25.

Even renowned Kobe HATER, Jordan23Forever, has conceeded as much. And if he says that, you can BET he's at leaet that high cause J23F wouldnt give Kobe a compliment if his life depended on it.

That's sad, even coming from you. You have no knowledge of NBA history. Leave RealGM forever.

[Bgil]

^see you fail again because there is a stat that shows kobe has higher % of his assists in the paint. I remember when reading Kobe vs. LeBron debate couple of months ago. I'd appreciate it if someone could post that again.

And assists by LeBron or Kobe is the reason for zone defense preventing inside scoring and forcing out side shots. They're open shots if they hit it we blow teams out just like we've been doing this seasons, so here you fail once again.You can't spin any more spin doctor because the season is almost over and just like many said everything will be set and done when it ends.

That was me who posted those stats. No problem to post them again.
From 82games.com

Lebron
3 point assists - 178 (34%)
Jumpshot assists - 161 (31%)
Close assists- 136 (25%)
Dunk assists- 50 (9.5%)
Total Assists- 525

Chris Paul
3's - 261 (30%)
Jumpshots - 268 (31%)
Close - 193 (22%)
Dunks - 152 (18%)
Total -874

Kobe
3's - 128 (29.5%)
Jumpers - 80 (19%)
Close - 120 (28%)
Dunks - 96 (23%)
Total - 424

So about 35% of Lebron's assists are "close" or dunks vs 40% of Paul's vs 51% for Kobe. Can't imagine how many more of those Kobe would have if Bynum would have been healthy. Despite Lebron having many more total assists Kobe has nearly twice as many assists for dunks. Crazy stuff that pretty much vibes with my assessment of the Cavs offense.

[snaquille oatmeal]

so for those who were waiting to decide on who your MVP is till we know who will win top seed in the west I ask you now that the top seed is really up for grabs, if the spurs win #1 seed = Ginobili MVP, if Houston wins top seed = Tmac is MVP, if Lakers finish ahead = Kobe MVP and if NO pulls it off = Paul MVP?

[ILikeTheGrizz]

so for those who were waiting to decide on who your MVP is till we know who will win top seed in the west I ask you now that the top seed is really up for grabs, if the spurs win #1 seed = Ginobili MVP, if Houston wins top seed = Tmac is MVP, if Lakers finish ahead = Kobe MVP and if NO pulls it off = Paul MVP?

Nope. Only between Paul and Bryant. Why did you think otherwise?

[carrottop12]

I think Paul pretty much choked away his MVP award tonight. Especially if the Lakers win tomorrow.

[tkb]

I voted Kobe over all of those players except West when we did the top 100 list IIRC. Kobe to me is around 15th all time, with a good shot at moving up a couple spots should he win the mvp and the championship this season.

Hondo and Baylor both have arguments vs Kobe, but I rate Kobe a tad higher right now. They are all in the same tier on the all time list IMO though.

[Bgil]

so for those who were waiting to decide on who your MVP is till we know who will win top seed in the west I ask you now that the top seed is really up for grabs, if the spurs win #1 seed = Ginobili MVP, if Houston wins top seed = Tmac is MVP, if Lakers finish ahead = Kobe MVP and if NO pulls it off = Paul MVP?

This race is nuts. Something tells me that Houston will get the first seed. Just the irony of everything, ya know.

[Doctor MJ]

so for those who were waiting to decide on who your MVP is till we know who will win top seed in the west I ask you now that the top seed is really up for grabs, if the spurs win #1 seed = Ginobili MVP, if Houston wins top seed = Tmac is MVP, if Lakers finish ahead = Kobe MVP and if NO pulls it off = Paul MVP?

For me it always was (until Paul's recent struggles) "If NO, then Paul, else Kobe".

[magicfan4life05]

For all of Paul's undeniable brilliance -- and for all of you who can't wait to angrily dismiss this as a lifetime achievement award for the guy considered the best player to never win an MVP award -- I'm sorry. But Bryant has had to deal with and do more this season than even CP3.

Bryant has seen more double- and triple-teams and junk defenses. He's endured a far lower grade of overall team health; Andrew Bynum will end up having played less than half the season, and Pau Gasol has missed 11 games just since his Feb. 1 arrival in Los Angeles. Kobe has played through a hand injury of his own that still requires surgery and is asked by his coach and teammates to be All-NBA at both ends, all while shouldering higher expectations than those of any other player in the league.

Kobe certainly could have made this a lot easier if the Lakers hadn't suffered those unforgivable home losses to the Bobcats and Grizzlies in late March, giving New Orleans its huge opening to shock the world and secure the West's No. 1 overall seed. But I'm rescinding my previous contention that the team with the better record would decide the Kobe-versus-Paul derby because the win-total difference won't be sufficiently drastic to separate these two. The variables mentioned above, to me, are bigger.

Clear cut for Kobe? No one would dare say that. But I finally decided that Bryant has to be my MVP when he's playing the team ball of his life, for a club everyone fears in the playoffs far more than the Hornets, while he's also playing in a stratosphere that only LeBron can presently reach. At Stein Line HQ, all that adds up to No. 24.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... -080412-13

[Deuce33]

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No, it wasn't. Kobe's had to deal with injuries. Paul has had one of the best seasons ever by a PG (Kobe hasn't had one of the best seasons by a SG even this decade, although it's been great). So that's a wash. I'm sorry, but it is. Record determines the tie-breaker.

05-06....

[snaquille oatmeal]

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Nope. Only between Paul and Bryant. Why did you think otherwise?

I didn't, but the logic that best player on the best team in the west should be MVP has been brought up here.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

05-06....

??? Are you referring to Kobe's 05-06 season? Or Wade's? Regardless, both are better than his season this year, so you're kinda proving my point. Thanks. I appreciate it.

the logic that best player on the best team in the west should be MVP has been brought up here.

I haven't heard that. I've heard that out of Paul and Kobe the one with the best record should win.

[tkb]

Its your own list man. You go to any all time list right now by any media pundit and Kobe is a top 20 player...AT WORST top 25.

Kobe was 21st on the list Doc mentioned. I have him some spots higher (15thish), but 20ish isn't that unreasonable.

[Don Draper]

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I disagree with your reason if Kobe won the MVP. Im not saying KG or Chris Paul do not deserve the MVP, but i disagree with your reason that it's a popularity contest. All 3 players have led there teams and deserve the MVP.

The difference is Kobe is in probably the toughest conference in NBA history. I mean the Warriors could end up winning 50 games and still not make the playoffs. Whoever is the 1# seed out of this conference, if they get the MVP, there should be no hating.

Lakers have a great shot to get that 1# seed now.

1) KG is barely mentioned as an MVP candidate. Look at all his credentials. I think alot of people know Kobe should have won it 2 years ago so now its like a makeup award.

2) Kobe getting snubbed and the West being tough aren't valid enough reasons. Look at what KG has done for his team on the court and in a historical context and it far surpasses KG.

3) KG was also:
25-5 vs the West
2-0 vs Lakers

Please give this man his due.

KG for MVP (I might have to make a website)

[Doctor MJ]

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05-06....

Not sure what your point is there. Had Kobe's team been in the running for #1 seed that year, he'd have won the MVP no doubt.

Regardless, I do think this year is Kobe's most impressive, and the most impressive of any SG this decade.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

Regardless, I do think this year is Kobe's most impressive, and the most impressive of any SG this decade.

I really have no idea how you can say that. Not that other SG seasons this decade way outclass Kobe's this year, but they have a rather clear advantage. Regardless, it doesn't matter as CP's is maybe the best for a PG ever.

Individual production= CP.

Dealing with injuries while being a good team= Kobe.

Tie-breaker=Awesomely enough, right now is tied. Although if they ended this way I'd give it to Kobe.

[Deuce33]

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Not sure what your point is there. Had Kobe's team been in the running for #1 seed that year, he'd have won the MVP no doubt.

Regardless, I do think this year is Kobe's most impressive, and the most impressive of any SG this decade.

I'm talking more from an individual perspective, Kobe basically dominated that season, and had one of the most historic seasons ever. I mean honestly from a team concept what more could he have done in the western conference with a young, inexperienced, and talentless team that year?

[ILikeTheGrizz]

Uh..look at LeBron's stats and wins...look at the amount of shots Kobe took to get those points...it was a great season, but he could've done more. Like, say, be LeBron.

[Bgil]

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I really have no idea how you can say that. Not that other SG seasons this decade way outclass Kobe's this year, but they have a rather clear advantage. Regardless, it doesn't matter as CP's is maybe the best for a PG ever.

Individual production= CP.

Dealing with injuries while being a good team= Kobe.

Tie-breaker=Awesomely enough, right now is tied. Although if they ended this way I'd give it to Kobe.

Have any of those SG's made an first team All-Defense? Or are you only talking about offensive box score production?