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Post#21 » by showtimesam » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:37 pm

midranger wrote:He was asked about Redd and gave him about as strong of a vote as LK. I'm sure if he was asked about Mo, he'd say lightly veiled nice things too. He's new to the team and needs to keep his assets' value up.

Redd is gone. Good riddance.

The guy is an embarrassment on the court.


Yup, I think Redd is out of here.

Detroit got where they are by locking up two way players to "fair" contracts.

Redd flies in the face of the way Hammond does business, and Redd WILL be gone this offseason.

Hammond loses any leverage in negotiating contracts with guys like Bogut when the player can point to Redd, his selfish play and lack of defense and the fact he has a max contract to show for it.

In fact, I think thats move number one.

You can feel it in the change of tone from the FSN telecast. Every other sentence was, "Detroit never gave out a max contract".

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Post#22 » by xTitan » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:42 pm

Neither Redd or Mo Williams are anything near what Detroit's backcourt is, they are both out of here, it comes down to when they go and what they can get for them. If Hammonds is as smart as I think he is, expect some glowing reports about Redd and Williams in the near future, unless he already figures everyone else in this league knows exactly what they are.
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Post#23 » by europa » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:47 pm

showtimesam wrote:Hammond loses any leverage in negotiating contracts with guys like Bogut when the player can point to Redd, his selfish play and lack of defense and the fact he has a max contract to show for it.


I disagree. All he has to do is say that was a mistake made by the failed previous GM and there's a new way of doing business and it starts now. You're either with us or you're not. Again, I don't think Bogut's going anywhere. If the Bucks want to keep him, they will, and I'm confident based on the organization he came from that Hammond won't significantly overpay to keep him.

And while I think it's possible Redd could get traded, I don't believe moving him will be priority No. 1. Based on Hammond's comments, he seems to appreciate Redd's ability to score and that's not something to be taken lightly in my opinion. I think there's a far greater chance that Redd could be placed into the Pistons' way of doing things (if Hammond chooses to use that as his model for the Bucks) then Mo and Villanueva ever will. I think Mo's a goner and I still believe Villanueva will be dealt as well. Neither Yi nor Villanueva have shown they can play well off the bench. For both, their best production has been as starters. Given how Yi is the future, that leaves Villanueva on his way out.

Back to Redd, I think he will be traded in another year or two. But if I had to speculate, I'd say it won't happen this summer unless the Bucks are blown away by a great offer for him.
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Post#24 » by paulpressey25 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:15 pm

We'll find out how good a trader this guy is.....if he can move Redd for something of value, I think Redd is gone. If he can't, Redd stays.

I do not see the Redd for garbage/cap space/a late #1 that some of you guys advocate.......

But I also don't think the something of value that Hammond would move him for would correlate with the value Europa would place on Redd.
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Post#25 » by europa » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:19 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I do not see the Redd for garbage/cap space/a late #1 that some of you guys advocate.......


I'd be shocked if he made a move like that.

But I also don't think the something of value that Hammond would move him for would correlate with the value Europa would place on Redd.


At this point, I'm just looking for at least one good young player in return for Redd. I'd like more and I think if Hammond got creative he could get more, but at this point I'll settle for that. I think just giving him away would be a gigantic blunder.
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Post#26 » by Chapter29 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:28 pm

I cannot even comprehend just giving away Redd.

I think people are overreacting to Redd's down season. I think a real coach is the only concern (salary aside). Much like he did with TeamUSA, if Redd believes in the system and his teammates I think he will fulfill the role that is asked of him. But that cannot come from a coach like Larry K on a team as dysfunctional as the Bucks.

I am ok with Redd being traded, but I would sooner overpay for our obviously most talented player than just give him away.
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Post#27 » by europa » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:37 pm

I agree Chapter. And one could make a strong argument that if Redd was paired with a stronger PG who wasn't looking to shoot all the time, that would make Redd and the team better. It is worth noting, in my opinion, that the Bucks have been in the playoffs both seasons when Redd was teamed with a PG not named Mo Williams. Now neither of those seasons were great by any means but they were championship caliber compared to the other three.

I think Hammond will explore trade options for Redd. It's the smart move to make. But his comments yesterday struck me as understanding that while Redd has flaws to his game, his ability to score is not something that should be readily dismissed. That has value and it arguably has more value than just getting rid of him.
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Post#28 » by EastSideBucksFan » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:46 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:We'll find out how good a trader this guy is.....if he can move Redd for something of value, I think Redd is gone. If he can't, Redd stays.

I do not see the Redd for garbage/cap space/a late #1 that some of you guys advocate.......

But I also don't think the something of value that Hammond would move him for would correlate with the value Europa would place on Redd.




I agree with this train of thought. Perhaps if Hammond had the Redd/Tmac swap put on his desk and he was able to try and convince Herb that it was the right thing to do, it would be done.

Everyone's saying he's going to be patient and I agree, but he could also be looking to make a splash. If he's going to try and change the culture, a big move would go a long way.

That said, its far from a certainty that Redd is gone. IF there is good value presented to him, an elite player like TMac, then perhaps he will be moved. But Kohl didn't bring Hammond in to blow up the team. There is pressure on him to win now.

So, he could keep the "three elite" on our team Redd, Bogut, Yi (elite potential at least), and then decide to move complementary players who have bred the whining, losing, no defense culture (Mo, CV, Simmons).

He could then move the horribly overpaid 3rd string center Gadzuric for anything he can get or attempt to package him with an attractive piece we have like Redd if he goes or with our first, should he move.

Hard workers and defenders will stay, namely Mason, Bell, and Sessions. Perhaps Ivey and Ruffin will get a look to have a chance to stay, but he could just look to a chance on players that have better potential for the future.

But Voskuhl and Storey are locks to be gone.


As far as the draft pick, if we don't land one of the Top 3, I'm all for moving it. There's nobody really beyond that Top 3 that I'm big on for coming in next year and making an impact. So you take the pick and package it will a player looking to be moved and try and acquire a vet who can come in right away.

I think a SF is our most glaring need and I'd be looking in to seeing if we could acquire one of these players: RJ, Maggette, Childress, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Iguodala.

Although we also need a starting PG, but there are far fewer of those available. Udrih could be an option or perhaps Hinrich or Lowry, maybe Conley.


I think Hammond understands what its going to take to win. As constructed this team can't defend and has no starting PG. He must address the small forward problem and he must address the lack of a bruising frontcourt player.

He will be patient, but he will have to make moves this summer to address our most glaring deficiencies.
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Post#29 » by Chapter29 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:51 pm

EastSideBucksFan,

We are most certainly on the same page. I agree completely.
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Post#30 » by xTitan » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:32 pm

I can tell you one thing I took from listening to Hammond, anyone brought in will be a defender, even at the expense of being an offensive player, Udrich is out, thats a Larry harris type of guy.

As far as Redd goes and his value, everyone easily forgets his awful contract. If Redd was in the $10-$12 million range they could get quality back, but he is the Alan Houston of this time, a 1 trick pony who is massively overpaid.

I am not sure what Artest's status is, he might have 1 year remaining....but the possibility of moving Mo or Redd for Artest and Francisco Garcia plus whatever filler, would intrigue me.
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Post#31 » by Nowak008 » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:18 am

How the hell can anyone read that and come away with a strong commitment to Redd??
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Post#32 » by europa » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:25 am

Nowak008 wrote:How the hell can anyone read that and come away with a strong commitment to Redd??


I read it as having a keen understanding of the value of Redd's ability to score and how that's not something that should be readily dismissed given how, as Hammond said, there aren't many players in the league who can score like Redd can. His words, not mine.
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Post#33 » by Max Green » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:26 am

Chapter29 wrote:I cannot even comprehend just giving away Redd.

I think people are overreacting to Redd's down season. I think a real coach is the only concern (salary aside). Much like he did with TeamUSA, if Redd believes in the system and his teammates I think he will fulfill the role that is asked of him. But that cannot come from a coach like Larry K on a team as dysfunctional as the Bucks.

I am ok with Redd being traded, but I would sooner overpay for our obviously most talented player than just give him away.
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Post#34 » by Nowak008 » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:32 am

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I read it as having a keen understanding of the value of Redd's ability to score and how that's not something that should be readily dismissed given how, as Hammond said, there aren't many players in the league who can score like Redd can. His words, not mine.


Did you just not read the bottom part where he mentions trading Stackhouse?
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Post#35 » by europa » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:35 am

Nowak008 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Did you just not read the bottom part where he mentions trading Stackhouse?


Yup. And the Pistons traded Stackhouse in the third year of Dumars' tenure. Hammond's quotes struck me as saying that Redd is part of the foundation for now but won't be part of the foundation long term. That's what I posted earlier and it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what we see happen. Redd stays with the team for another season, maybe two, and then he gets traded after Hammond has been able to add stronger pieces to the mix.
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Post#36 » by MickeyDavis » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:47 am

I'd sure like to see how we would do with Redd AND an all-star. He's been surrounding with a lot of crap.
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Post#37 » by ReasonablySober » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:51 am

MickeyDavis wrote:I'd sure like to see how we would do with Redd AND an all-star. He's been surrounding with a lot of crap.


I'm told Bogut's All-Star caliber. We'll find out next year if both are retained.
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Post#38 » by Nowak008 » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:58 am

MickeyDavis wrote:I'd sure like to see how we would do with Redd AND an all-star. He's been surrounding with a lot of crap.


Will having another allstar prevent him from gaging in the 4th frequently? Or change the fact that he is extremely overpaid?
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Post#39 » by El Duderino » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:59 am

xTitan wrote:
As far as Redd goes and his value, everyone easily forgets his awful contract. If Redd was in the $10-$12 million range they could get quality back, but he is the Alan Houston of this time, a 1 trick pony who is massively overpaid


People here always say that Redd shouldn't be "given away", but if he ends up traded for less than these people want, there will be only one reason for it, teams around the NBA don't value Redd highly at 17-18 million a year.

Obviously if Hammonds decides that trading Redd and his contract is a high priority, he's not going to take the least in return possible. We'll find out just how much Redd at max money is valued around the NBA if/when he's traded.

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