Mavsblog: Is Kidd the league's best defensive PG?

[HMFFL]

Two guys who should know such things think so. From Ian Thomsen's Inside the NBA column on SI.com:

1 Vote for All-Defensive team

1. Not that anybody asks -- the coaches decide this honor -- but here is how I would vote.

C -- Marcus Camby, Nuggets
PF -- Kevin Garnett, Celtics
SF -- Shane Battier, Rockets
SG -- Bruce Bowen, Spurs
PG -- Jason Kidd, Mavericks

Bowen is a small forward offensively, but he often shuts down the top scorer in the backcourt, and it would be wrong to put forth a team like this without including Garnett, Battier and Bowen. The hardest position to choose each year is point guard, so I sought the advice of an NBA coach, a team executive with NBA personnel duties and an advance scout. The first two voted for Kidd, while the scout rated Deron Williams slightly ahead of Kidd. The executive noted that Kidd often is assigned to defend the superior backcourt scorer, including shooting guards. The coach said Kidd is able to adapt to quicker point guards by giving them space and playing the angles. Kidd's talent for rebounding is another asset defensively.

Well, we know that Mark Cuban would disagree, since he stated earlier this season that Devin Harris is the NBA's best defensive point guard.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I looked up the simplest stats to compare the defensive performance of Kidd and Harris. The Mavs are allowing 1.5 more points per 48 minutes with Kidd on the court than they did with Harris. The Nets are allowing 4.6 more points per 48 minutes with Harris than they did with Kidd.

I'll call that inconclusive and figure that the coach and executive who raved about Kidd's D knew what they were talking about.

Link

[dirtyfilthynasty]

Don't let JES see this

[DDansby123]

No, I don't think Kidd's the best defensive PG.

That being said, I maintain that Kidd has a greater defensive impact than Harris, even though Harris is arguably the better individual defender. A few of us have argued for the past year or so that Harris, while a pretty good individual defender, still doesn't impact the game too much defensively (for a variety of reasons).

Kidd, I believe, is the better overall defender of the two. He's more versatile defensively, can guard multiple positions, and is miles better as a team defender. And I've been pleasantly surprised at his ability to stay with quicker PGs, even though he'll still get abused by them occasionally (just as Harris did).

[JES12]

Don't let JES see this

The +/- with them on the court vs the same team with them off the court is a better indicator of their overall effect, not how many points the team as a whole allows.


Devin Harris is a +4.4 in NJ compared to Kidd's +4.0
Devin Harris as a Mav was +7.7 (without Dirk playing like the regular season meant something) compared to Kidds +3.2 (with Dirk playing with emotion again)

And I also said that the quicker PGs like Parker, Ellis and Paul would have tear us apart and we would be may better with the bigger PGs like Davis, Billups and Williams. That "may" ended up being true and to my surprise, Kidd defended Nash VERY well.

To say I gave Kidd no defensive credit is just absurd...so your 5 word sentence is just hot air and just trying to prod for an argument.

[JES12]

Also...that is just 1 person from SI.

Hollinger's All defensive team (from his ESPN's insider article)

1st Team
C - Duncan
PF - Garnett
SF - Prince
SG - Battier
PG - Rondo

2nd Team
C - Camby
PF - R. Wallace
SF - B. Bowen
SG - Bell
PG - Dooling

3rd Team
C - D. Howard
PF - Hayes
SF - Pierce
SG - Bryant
PG - Billups

[your_dallas_mavericks]

Kidd is just too slow to truly be considered Best Def. PG imho.

[dirkforpres]

CP3 is a much better defender than anyone listed in this topic.

[your_dallas_mavericks]

CP3 better than Harris?

Oh no, I sound like JES!

[JES12]

CP3 better than Harris?

Oh no, I sound like JES!

CP3 is to Harris as Butler is to Howard. That is Butler and CP3 play the passing lanes much better, but Howard and Harris are the better man defenders. And I think Butler should have been 1st team over Prince...and definatly over Pierce.

[dirtyfilthynasty]

-= original quote snipped =-

The +/- with them on the court vs the same team with them off the court is a better indicator of their overall effect, not how many points the team as a whole allows.


Devin Harris is a +4.4 in NJ compared to Kidd's +4.0
Devin Harris as a Mav was +7.7 (without Dirk playing like the regular season meant something) compared to Kidds +3.2 (with Dirk playing with emotion again)

And I also said that the quicker PGs like Parker, Ellis and Paul would have tear us apart and we would be may better with the bigger PGs like Davis, Billups and Williams. That "may" ended up being true and to my surprise, Kidd defended Nash VERY well.

To say I gave Kidd no defensive credit is just absurd...so your 5 word sentence is just hot air and just trying to prod for an argument.

Please point out where I said you gave Kidd no defensive credit. You have stood on your soapbox and made it clear that you believe Harris is a better defensive point guard than Kidd. That is all that I was referring to. What part of that do you disagree with?

[your_dallas_mavericks]

Kidd gets a lot of steals, a lot more than Harris did. But, at the same time, Harris was on a leash and probably "not allowed" to use his gifted quickness more to become a steal artist. I believe Harris could average up to 3 or more steals/game.

[Deus]

I believe Kidd is a much better defender than Harris, who would rely completely on his speed alone to guard players. However, if the Mavs were playing a veteran, savy team like the Spurs or the Lakers, Harris would get routinely schooled by his opponent.

Kidd, on the other hand, relies on his experience and instincts for the game. His hands are also much better than Harris. He's also bigger and stronger than Harris. The two times the Mavs played the Lakers, Kidd has stolen the last minute pass intended for Kobe. I've NEVER seen that at a Mavs game. That's defense.

[your_dallas_mavericks]

Kidd's defense you are saying is more constant, not solely dependent on speed. That's cool.