2004 Draft do over

[Samson]

I'm agreeing with the esteemed poster who commented that Iguodala was rated as high as 3. I'm pretty sure he was nbadraft.net's #3 pick leading RIGHT UP to the draft.

Story goes, Ben Gordon had some kind a Mike Mamula-esque workout that Larry Brown witnessed, and he rang spoke to somebody and commented how super impressed he was with "th at Gordon kid.." and then the Bulls got wind, took a little closer look, and were blown away with their private workout and he became their man at #3.

and I wanted Iguodala bad, knowing Howard and Okafor would go some combo of 1/2...and I know I wanted Livingston bad too, but boy...when I heard Stern announce that "Hafiael ArOOjo" or however he pronounced it...I hit the ceiling. it was the steal of the century! j/k

[freshie2]

Have to agree with SendEm. Okafor is a better player than Biedrens. I do like Biedrens upside, but Okafor has a bit more going for him than Biedrens. I've taken Okafor off the radar as I don't think the Sixers can land him, but would be happy if they somehow added either player as they both give the Sixers a huge upgrade over their current big man opposite Sam.

[ITK9]

you simply can't put iguodala over jefferson.

[Sixers24]

1. Howard
2. Jefferson
3. Kevin Martin
4. Iguodala
5. Okafor
6. Josh Smith
7. Luol Deng
8. Andris Biedrins
9. Devin Harris
10. Childress
11. Gordon
12. Livingston
13. JR Smith
14. Delonte
15. Jameer

Something like that.

[SendEm]

So I'm the only one showing Beno any love? Have you all seen what he has accomplished when given playing time, both early in his career and recently in Sacramento? He's definitely where I placed him if there were a draft do over.

[mmh119]

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More athletic? He's a twig...I wouldn't call Biendrins more athletic than Okafor considering the MAJOR strength advantage Okafor possesses. If these two players were running backs Okafor would be an every down back and Biendrin's is a 3rd down back. Biendrin's greatest accomplishments come on paper. He shows up statistically whenever he plays the whole game and doesn't get benched by Nellie in favor of an even smaller lineup. But the fact is that Biendrin's is the "anchor" on the WORST defensive team in the entire NBA. Biendrin's "youth" over Okafor would probably matter to me if Biendrin's were 18-19 instead of 22. Okafor did more in the NBA than Biendrin's back when he was 22.

Actually Biedrins just turned 22 years old 12 days ago and since then has averaged 13 points and 15 rebounds. Not bad right? Okafor had 4 years of college ball to prepare for the NBA and Biedrins came into the league at 18. If Biedrins went to college this would be his senior season.

Right now Okafor is what he is on the other hand you have Andris who is still improving and getting better. I like his game the way he plays around the basket, his hustle and his rebounding. Long term I think he will develop into a better player.

There is no point to keep arguing about this no matter what I say you are not going to agree with me and I am going to stay with my point of view that down the line I think Biedrins will become a better pro. This is not an exact science if it was we would all have the same list.

[Sixers24]

So I'm the only one showing Beno any love? Have you'll seen what he has accomplished when given playing time both early in his career and recently in Sacramento? He's definitely where I placed him if there were a draft do over.

No, he's definitely not. But keep telling yourself that. He's 26 years old and has a PER of 13.1, amongst other less than stellar numbers (here, I provided the link for you! http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... hbe01.html).

He's a nice backup PG, but there's no way teams are taking him over Jameer (who I don't even think is that good), Delonte, J.R. Smith, Livingston, and some of the other guys that fall in that next tier past the Top 10.

[SendEm]

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Actually Biedrins just turned 22 years old 12 days ago and since then has averaged 13 points and 15 rebounds. Not bad right? Okafor had 4 years of college ball to prepare for the NBA and Biedrins came into the league at 18. If Biedrins went to college this would be his senior season.

Right now Okafor is what he is on the other hand you have Andris who is still improving and getting better. I like his game the way he plays around the basket, his hustle and his rebounding. Long term I think he will develop into a better player.

There is no point to keep arguing about this no matter what I say you are not going to agree with me and I am going to stay with my point of view that down the line I think Biedrins will become a better pro. This is not an exact science if it was we would all have the same list.

It has been proven that players that skip college do better in the NBA than players that attend college. So, Biendrins would in that matter have the upper hand on Okafor therefore making your entire post null and void.

Additionally you are the only person that I have seen in this thread and in life touting how much of a better player Biendrin's will be over Okafor, but in reality Okafor produced more in the NBA at the same exact age that Biendrins is RIGHT NOW and did it while playing on a team with crappy guards. That is something Biendrins has never done and doesn't have the post skills to be able to do on the same level that Okafor has done it. You add in Okafor's PHYSICAL STRENGTH advantage and the tables completely turn his way.

People who know basketball like Biendrins but it is obvious to the eye that he is the beneficiary of having teams not gameplan against him due to his team's excellent perimeter players. What would Okafor be able to accomplish if he were ever placed in the position of being the 5th best player in the starting lineup on his team like Biendrins? Okafor has been one of the 2-3 best players on his team since day one and has STILL accomplished more than Biendrins. Biendrins would look like Tyson Chandler back in Chicago if he played for a bad team, possibly even "Birdman".


Well maybe not "Birdman"...

[SendEm]

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No, he's definitely not. But keep telling yourself that. He's 26 years old and has a PER of 13.1, amongst other less than stellar numbers (here, I provided the link for you! http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... hbe01.html).

He's a nice backup PG, but there's no way teams are taking him over Jameer (who I don't even think is that good), Delonte, J.R. Smith, Livingston, and some of the other guys that fall in that next tier past the Top 10.

I'm sorry, I'm not into "per" numbers. People who actually watch the basketball games know what Beno has accomplished this year and Bibby was jettisoned away to make room for the contract the Kings will be inking Beno to once the season is over. WATCH the game sometime...Numbers do not tell the entire story...

[76erinSJ]

I thought if your on a bad team your numbers go up sendem? If Omeka was on GS he would be in the same place as Beidrins. He would be getting benched so that Nelson could play small ball. As it is right now I would rather have Beidrins. Hes younger, should cost 3-5 million less and plays hard every game even when they were bad. Omeka just doesnt seem to have any drive. And if he has to dribble the ball at all its a turnover.

[bychai]

I can't believe we could've gotten any of these players other than Araujo -_-

[mmh119]

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It has been proven that players that skip college do better in the NBA than players that attend college. So, Biendrins would in that matter have the upper hand on Okafor therefore making your entire post null and void.

Additionally you are the only person that I have seen in this thread and in life touting how much of a better player Biendrin's will be over Okafor, but in reality Okafor produced more in the NBA at the same exact age that Biendrins is RIGHT NOW and did it while playing on a team with crappy guards. That is something Biendrins has never done and doesn't have the post skills to be able to do on the same level that Okafor has done it. You add in Okafor's PHYSICAL STRENGTH advantage and the tables completely turn his way.

People who know basketball like Biendrins but it is obvious to the eye that he is the beneficiary of having teams not gameplan against him due to his team's excellent perimeter players. What would Okafor be able to accomplish if he were ever placed in the position of being the 5th best player in the starting lineup on his team like Biendrins? Okafor has been one of the 2-3 best players on his team since day one and has STILL accomplished more than Biendrins. Biendrins would look like Tyson Chandler back in Chicago if he played for a bad team, possibly even "Birdman".


Well maybe not "Birdman"...

Out produced him how? Like I said Biedrins would be a college senior right now so how can you compare Okafor's senior season to one year in the nba?

If you want to talk about this year Biedrins is right with Okafor in every category except for points where Okafor averages 3 more a game. Sorry for not being that impressed with Okafor who is a finished product. He is never going to be more then what he is. Biedrins still has room to grow. That has been my point the whole time.

As far as defense goes Okafor is obviously a better player but is he really anything special on defense? He is good defensive player not a great one. If he was the 3rd or 4th best player from this draft like you claim then why did the Bobcats sign Varejao to an offer sheet then go out and trade for Nazr Mohammed's ridiculous contract? That seems alittle desperate to me... shouldn't they have already had there big man in Okafor?

Listen i really don't even care anymore if you want to think you are the one basketball expert out there and my posts are null and void go ahead I have better things to do during the day then to continue to write the same posts over and over again.

[SendEm]

If he was the 3rd or 4th best player from this draft like you claim then why did the Bobcats sign Varejao to an offer sheet then go out and trade for Nazr Mohammed's ridiculous contract? That seems alittle desperate to me... shouldn't they have already had there big man in Okafor?

Wow???!!!??? You have confirmed what I knew all along, you don't have a firm understanding of basketball. Why wouldn't a horrible NBA franchise look to improve their front court by adding a true center (Nazr) while moving their PF/C to the PF position full time (Okafor)? In the fantasy basketball world I perhaps that wouldn't be a good move, but I don't play fantasy basketball. But as far as NBA basketball goes that was a great move for Charlotte to give up NOTHING to get a starting caliber center.
By using your logic what am I suppose to think about Golden State signing Chris Webber who was running on four flat tires? I mean didn't Golden State have their big man already? Now THAT is what you call a move made out of desperation. Golden State was DESPERATE for a front court player that could DEFEND.

[mmh119]

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Wow???!!!??? You have confirmed what I knew all along, you don't have a firm understanding of basketball. Why wouldn't a horrible NBA franchise look to improve their front court by adding a true center (Nazr) while moving their PF/C to the PF position full time (Okafor)? In the fantasy basketball world I perhaps that wouldn't be a good move, but I don't play fantasy basketball. But as far as NBA basketball goes that was a great move for Charlotte to give up NOTHING to get a starting caliber center.
By using your logic what am I suppose to think about Golden State signing Chris Webber who was running on four flat tires? I mean didn't Golden State have their big man already? Now THAT is what you call a move made out of desperation. Golden State was DESPERATE for a front court player that could DEFEND.

Nazr Mohammad was untradable nobody wanted him. How much did the Warriors give Chris Webber? The vet minimum probably. I dunno I guess there would be a difference in that.

What a great move by Charlotte !!!! How many games have they won with that dominant front court? What a great basketball mind you are who the hell is this Billy King?

[93 Phillies]

most of you are overrating biedrins

[SendEm]

most of you are overrating biedrins

Well what do you expect, he's "only" 22 years old averaging 10 and 9 as the starting center on the worst defensive team in the NBA. What's there not to like and overrate accordingly.

[mmh119]

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Well what do you expect, he's "only" 22 years old averaging 10 and 9 as the starting center on the worst defensive team in the NBA. What's there not to like and overrate accordingly.

I guess you are right I mean noone has ever become a better player after the age of 22. I guess you came to that conclussion after watching so much of Okafor since he has not.

[freshie2]

Biedrens is worth a hard look, and would be a target if they are going to spend FA money. That being said, Okafor is a better player at this point, and there may be better big men they can obtain via a trade.

Tough to gauge the impact of playing for the GSW...Nellie doesn't really use the big men, but he does have good guard play around him. It's difficult to translate a 10/10 player in GS who gets under 30 minutes of PT with good guard play to the Sixers. Worst case scenerio, he comes to the Sixers and his stats don't change...best case scenerio, he develops more offensively, and gives them a 15+/10+ player.

[LieCheatSteal]

Revisiting the 2004 draft reminds me how bad the Araujo pick was by the Raptors. I understand this pick was made more on need rather than potential (Araujo was supposed to be the most NBA ready center in college and picking a skinny center to pair with skinny Bosh would have been (Please Use More Appropriate Word)) but still. The Podkozin pick would have been better than watching Araujo play and hearing all the spin management was putting on his poor play.

Also interesting that of the 1st ten teams, it seems like the teams that drafted more for need (Cleveland and Toronto) made terrible mistakes (from what I remember, Cleveland needed a shooter to pair with Lebron, thus Luke Jackson, and Toronto needed a big center with size).

[Sixers24]

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I'm sorry, I'm not into "per" numbers. People who actually watch the basketball games know what Beno has accomplished this year and Bibby was jettisoned away to make room for the contract the Kings will be inking Beno to once the season is over. WATCH the game sometime...Numbers do not tell the entire story...

Alright, Skip Bayless.