MVP Watch 2008... Part 5

[ILikeTheGrizz]

Now it's just for entertainment. I came to this board for basketball, but I stay for the Kobe fans. You're all just so damn interesting. Some people like zoos, I like this.

The point which you missed, probably because it wasn't a guy playing basketball in a purple and gold 24, was that it doesn't matter how you want to breakdown arguments: Someone is going to look at it from those points of view and vote accordingly. It doesn't matter that shobe_81 doesn't think it's fair- he's only looking at it from the point of view that supports his guy anyway.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

Some times I wonder if some of you even bother to read what is being posted.

And again we have another contention that, apparently, only Kobe fans read and/or understand the true argument. If only we read it or understood it! Not only would we say Kobe is best choice under what's believed to be the current majority criteria for the MVP (which most already have), but we would also understand how it's stupid to believe it's anyone else could think anyone else could be MVP too.

[semi-sentient]

Well their is no set criteria for MVP, so everyone has their own way of voting... Hollinger is almost always going to vote for the best PER.

... and that right there is a big part of the problem.

What really bothers me about the reasoning that they used is that it's easy to sift through their BS to conclude that they have a clear agenda when voting. The least they could do is be honest and vote with a little less emotion.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

... and that right there is a big part of the problem.

I dunno about that. The award has done a pretty good job- especially if you look at MVP shares- of picking out the best players since it's inception. It seems to be working and it's still the most relevant award in American sports. AFC Defensive Player of the Year? Does anyone care about that? Baseball awards are better but because they're split into pitchers and other players (kinda) and NL and AL it loses it's punch.

The NBA MVP is the MVP of pro sports in the US, if not Canada and the rest of the world. Gotta be doing something right.

[ClipperEric]

MVP 2009 ..... Elton Brand

[eatyourchildren]

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I dunno about that. The award has done a pretty good job- especially if you look at MVP shares- of picking out the best players since it's inception. It seems to be working and it's still the most relevant award in American sports. AFC Defensive Player of the Year? Does anyone care about that? Baseball awards are better but because they're split into pitchers and other players (kinda) and NL and AL it loses it's punch.

The NBA MVP is the MVP of pro sports in the US, if not Canada and the rest of the world. Gotta be doing something right.

The NBA isn't even the most popular league in the US, much less the world. What's informing your opinion of this?

[ILikeTheGrizz]

It's clearly the most important of the MVP awards. Maybe Canada puts more weight in the NHL MVP (does it have a special name?) but I dunno. Obviously the NFL is more popular in the States but the AFC and NFC MVP are afterthoughts.

[semi-sentient]

If the award has done such a great job, then why are so many people (some voters included) stating that the award is becoming a joke and lost its relevance? Having some basic criteria would help eliminate that, just like it would eliminate the morons of the world that waste votes on guys like PJ Brown.

[eatyourchildren]

I say just give it to the Coaches + GM's/Team scouts to vote on. Seems like an easy solution. They always seem to do a good job with the All-Star reserves.

[KDRE]

Why are people complaining about Hollinger when he doesn't even have a vote?

Didnt see any complaints when people wanted to throw votes Kobe's way just because of something that happened years ago he didnt even deserve...

Not to mention that fact that BSPN had two lameduck writers write stories for Kobe and none for the other candidates.

[conleyorbust]

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Cleveland is 44 and 36, that doesn't even get them a playoff spot in the West, why should Lebron be considered when Kobe put up 35 PPG with 5 Assists and 5 Boards and didn't win MVP with a crappy squad that included Kwame, Smush Parker, and Brian Cook with undeveloped role players?

Yeah and Kobe got first place votes that season... probably more than Lebron will this season. That is one reason it won't be unanimous. I think the hypocrites in this situation are the Kobe fans that thought Kobe should have won it that year but are discounting James' candidacy this year.

Here's the thing, you guys are using a completely (Please Use More Appropriate Word) logical process here. Kobe didn't win MVP those years because his team wasn't good enough but he did get a ton of first place votes (the second most first place votes in the league as a matter of fact). This season Kobe will win the MVP but a guy who has had an even more impressive individual season on a team that will be at least as good if not better will get a couple of first place votes (not as many as Kobe had that season) and you are complaining and calling the people that might think that way nitwits.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

I don't think an award with the long history that the NBA MVP has can 'lose it's relevance' because Steve Nash won in 06 and the Mavs got beat in the first round in 07.

I mean, I don't like Nash's second award either, but it's hard to argue with a top 5 player leading his team to 67 wins.

[Sting3r]

i can live with nash winning an mvp award but winning it twice? Thats a feat some of the best players ever in the nba haven't accomplished.

[eatyourchildren]

Why are people complaining about Hollinger when he doesn't even have a vote?

Didnt see any complaints when people wanted to throw votes Kobe's way just because of something that happened years ago he didnt even deserve...

Not to mention that fact that BSPN had two lameduck writers write stories for Kobe and none for the other candidates.

What are you talking about? You make negative sense in this post.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

It doesn't discount the whole award though. One MVP in 40+ years makes it a joke? Besides, the guy turned around a team and led them to more than 60 wins and gets the MVP. Okay. Alot of people in response say "Well look at all the talent around him!"

The next year his All-NBA second team center- by far the main guy everyone was talking about when they talked about- misses all but three games the entire season and Nash is expected to flop. He takes the team to 54 wins, wins the division, and gets the third seed in the conference.

Again, I don't think he should've won and it's probably the most questionable MVP since I've been watching the NBA- about twenty years now- and maybe the most questionable ever. But it wasn't totally insane. And you'd think Kobe fans can certainly understand leading an injured team to unexpected success instead of using that year to preemptively bash the award in case Kobe doesn't win it.

Finally, if the Suns were to win the championship this year, all of the sudden those MVPs start looking much better. The NBA has kind of a skewed sense of who's great and who isn't lately because for nearly twenty years the best player won championships pretty regularly, or at least was in conference finals. Now you have Kobe who's among the best and hasn't lately. LeBron who's among the best an aside from last year he has a bunch of years of individual success without going much of anywhere. Garnett who's among the best but has been in the same boat. Wade who's among the best and looked like he might buck the trend but has been to injury-prone to. And only Duncan who might not even be better than Garnett but has had the right enviroment to meet the criteria set by previous stars.

But all the sudden, if Nash wins he doesn't go from being a great PG with some fantastic years. He becomes easily one of the best PGs ever and his MVPs look just fine.

[semi-sentient]

Again, I don't think he should've won and it's probably the most questionable MVP since I've been watching the NBA- about twenty years now- and maybe the most questionable ever. But it wasn't totally insane. And you'd think Kobe fans can certainly understand leading an injured team to unexpected success instead of using that year to preemptively bash the award in case Kobe doesn't win it.

See, this is exactly why I asked if you people actually read before posting. I'm pretty sure I pointed out that the voters themselves, in addition to fans in general, are the ones stating that the award has become a joke.

But yeah, go ahead and direct your response at "Kobe fans".

And just so you know, I had no problem with Nash or Nowitzki winning it, but keep trying to paint everyone as a Kobe fan, OK? It really helps your arguments.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

"Questionable" doesn't equal "joke".

More to the point, as I mentioned, if Nash wins a ring while still among the best in the league all of the sudden those MVPs become justified as recognizing a legitimately great player. He doesn't win a ring and it stays "How did Steve Nash win the MVP twice?!" That's not a problem with the award or with him as a player; he is what he is. It's a problem with the way the public rates NBA players.

Besides that, if other people were calling it a "joke" who's calling it one in this thread? Kobe fans who's biggest argument for him winning the award was keeping the Lakers as a good seed through injuries. Virtually the same argument that won Nash his. You'd think at least they would defend it. But...

[KDRE]

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What are you talking about? You make negative sense in this post.

Nobody has ever made sense in these threads except Kobe fans

That's getting really tired.

[shobe_81]

So who is the MVP, lets collect our votes at-least?

Shobe_81: Kobe
Semi?
IlikeGrizz?
Tkb?
Doc?
NO-KG-AI?

Anyone else?

[ILikeTheGrizz]

Kobe by a hair assuming everything stays the same with the standings.