TI: Mo to Utah

[midranger]

Being able to pass well for a guy your size (key words there, "guy your size"), and the ability to get dunks does NOT equal a good offensive player. While it COULD, you know, if you had a jumpshot, and could hit free throws.

I agree. Bogut is not a great or even good offensive player at this point. And quite frankly, his ability to pass out of a double team is suspect at best.

The fact remains that Bogut's most successful position on offense is passing out of the high post. Funny how I've come full circle on that.

[LUKE23]

It's not 1 million, it's 8.

1. Bogut isn't signed yet.

2. The difference in contracts on a per year basis will be minimal once Bogut does sign.

3. The minimal difference has nothing to do with the argument at hand.

[jerrod]

i think his passing has regressed terribly this year, that's by far my biggest disappointment with him this year. i kept thinking that he just didn't have to make the more difficult passes he used to make but with his double team struggles i'm not so sure about that anymore

[midranger]

-= original quote snipped =-



1. Bogut isn't signed yet.

2. The difference in contracts on a per year basis will be minimal once Bogut does sign.

3. The minimal difference has nothing to do with the argument at hand.

Follow me here. We would send out Gadzuric as well.

Assume we'd be paying Bogut 11 million next year. That means we save whatever Gadz's contract is equal to. That ~7 million would be applied to players better than Bogut like Elton Brand. Meanwhile we don't lose too much as Bogut would be the third option on offense anyway, while we gain in the areas of defense and rebounding that we so desperately need.

[gobbler]

Follow-Up trades.....

Say we can get Kirilenko for Mo/Mason.

Bogut/Gadzuric for Sam Dalembert

Yi/CV/7th pick/Simmons for Elton Brand


Sessions - Ivey
Redd - Bell
Kirilenko -
Brand - Ruffin
Dalembert -

A20 point scorer in the backcourt, and 20/10 guy upfront. Surrounded by guys who play defense, protect the rim, and rebound.

We'd need to use our 2nd rounder on a contributor and make a wise signing (scorer off the bench and backup C) with the BAE and MLE. Also consider bringing Ersan back.

How badly does everyone want to see a decent defensive team out there?

I actually like your final lineup, still, I don't know how it gets the Bucks beyond an early playoff exit. Nobody on that team is good enough.

Although Dalembert does work in this line-up, I would like to refer you to the following link regarding your preference for Dalembert over Bogut:

http://www.drug-rehab.ca/crackaddiction.htm

[El Duderino]

I'd be interested to see how that team would perform under a good coach, but it's hard enough to put together one big trade in an offseason, much less three of them.

Whenever i see these massive roster overhaul threads that involve multiple trades with big name players and their contracts, it's hard to take them seriously because i know it never would happen.

[AussieBuck]

Follow-Up trades.....

Say we can get Kirilenko for Mo/Mason.

Bogut/Gadzuric for Sam Dalembert

Yi/CV/7th pick/Simmons for Elton Brand


Sessions - Ivey
Redd - Bell
Kirilenko -
Brand - Ruffin
Dalembert -

A20 point scorer in the backcourt, and 20/10 guy upfront. Surrounded by guys who play defense, protect the rim, and rebound.

We'd need to use our 2nd rounder on a contributor and make a wise signing (scorer off the bench and backup C) with the BAE and MLE. Also consider bringing Ersan back.

How badly does everyone want to see a decent defensive team out there?

Bogut and Simmons for AK and Okur.
Redd and Yi for Brand
Mo for Battier
CV for Salmons
Westbrook with the pick

Sessions/Westbrook
Salmons/bell
AK(12mins)/Battier(36)
Brand(24)/AK(24)
Okur(36)/Brand(12)

That's a defensive team with no low IQ guys who will leave it all out there every night, and the best part is no playing favourites. Everyone goes!

Edit: I guess you then package Mason's expiring and the second round pick with Gadz to try and save money.

[paul]

The salaries and the fit. With Brand, we wouldn't need another guy demanding the ball down low (which Bogut will assured do given his lockeroom antics), but we will always need defense and rebounding (two things Dalembert does better). Paying 8 million less for a better fit.

Your manhate for Bogut never ceases to amaze, I must have forgotten it was Bogut who was responsible for all the locker room antics this year. And yes anyone, and I mean anyone, who takes Dalambert over Bogut at this point in their careers should really lay off the crack as gobbler suggested.

Anyway putting that to one side for a moment your starting 5 is interesting, although there is a gaping hole at the PG, I'm not convinced as yet that Sessions is a starter and having only Ivey for cover would be a massive mistake. You'll still have the exact same problems Redd currently brings to the team, and would have the added bonus of the whining bitch that is AK.

Brand was a hell of a player before his injury, but it would be extremely risky to be depending on a guaranteed 20/10 out of him next season. The guy will turn 30 during the season, is big and heavy and has now missed a full season of basketball. Whilst I hope he gets back to his previous level, one only needs to look as far as our SF to see just how much of a toll a year out of the game can take.

Their ages would also be interesting, during next season they would be turning -

Redd - 29 almost 30
AK - 28
Brand - 30
Dalambert - 28

You'd want to hope this team can win right out of the blocks, cause we'd be paying an absolute fortune for those 4 and not one of those guys are at an age where they are likely to ever improve themselves.
Lastly whilst this would definitely be an improved defensive team the backcourt defense would still be a MAJOR problem, with Sessions unlikely to be a lockdown guy in his second season and Redd still trying to defend that wet paper bag.

I don't hate the lineup, but I like a lot of other possibilities more, and Dalambert for Bogut is an absolute no brain veto.

[dunhill]

Wait weren't more than a few people whining about how old Bogut was compared to Bynum? And how the the 3 yr age gap was a massive upside. Why isn't this being applied now. Bogut 24 in NOv - Dalembert 27 in may.

Besides I don't think Brand leaves LA. And it;s not as though the Clips want anything the Bucks have. They've been crucified with injuries and are still a fairly young team. Sure Shaun Livingston is ???? with health, but its not like he's irreplaceable through FA. Brand is also a ? with health but if he's back on court now the only question is IMO is he just a solid PF now or can he return to superstardom. An Achilles tear is pretty debilitating. But considering what he can do at his best I don't think the Clips give up on him for at least one more season.

Problem with CV trade, Kenny Thomas (there's a termination option not sure who's the team or player) and Shareef Abdur Rahim at PF for close to 16mil. Sure CV is cheap but Sacramento is still on the books for those 2 when its time to renegotiate his contract. If anything they'd be trying to shift Salmons with one of those guys. Also I'm pretty sure they'll try to keep Artest (I'd pay to see the look on Artests face when CV messes up his defensive assignments for the umpteenth time)

Mo for Battier I don;t see Houston biting on that either. He is one of the best defenders in the league. He gets all the crappy assignments such as nearly every high scoring guard/sf. They need his D more than Mo's scoring. Their team balance goes out of whack if they lose Battier.

Bogut/Simmons for AK and Okur works kind of, but then they go back to the same problem they had early this year and only having 2 real consistent perimeter threats (prior to the Korver trade it was Okur and Williams if they do this trade instead of Okur/Williams/Korver they just have Korver and williams). CV would probably be the better option here IMO in terms of offensive skillset. But the numbers don't add up.