Season Over: Top 25 Shooting Guards

[Scalabrine]

Ive done Top 20 or 30 rankings for all positions in the beggining of the season, in the middle of the season and now the end of the season.

This list is based on play this year. Defense, Offense, Games Played, and to a lesser extent Team Success have all been considered while making these ranking. I hope you enjoy.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Allen Iverson
3. Manu Ginobli
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Joe Johnson
6. Monta Ellis
7. Vince Carter
8. Jason Richardson
9. Richard Hamilton
10. Brandon Roy
11. Michael Redd
12. Kevin Martin
13. Jamal Crawford
14. Ray Allen
15. Mike Dunleavy
16. Cory Maggette
17. Mike Miller
18. Dwayne Wade
19. Kevin Durant
20. Ben Gordon
21. Jason Terry
22. Anthony Parker
23. Ronnie Brewer
24. Raja Bell
25. DeShawn Stevenson

What do you guys think of this list? Who should be higher and who should be lower? What would your list look like?

[TheSheriff]

Crawford was not better than Ray Allen.

[Scalabrine]

I think Crawford vs. Allen this season is debateable, Crawford averaged more assists and points per game then Allen while Allen shot better %'s. Crawford offensive game is better than Allens while Allen is a better shooter. I dont know I think Allens season wasnt as good as years past and Crawford had his best season. I think its very close (they are 14 and 15 on the list).

[ITK9]

i like the list.

[conleyorbust]

Move Richardson down. Move Allen past Craw, Dunleavy and Miller too.

[DelaneyRudd]

Ronnie Brewer is better than Stevenson.

[Serpo]

You've edited the SF and put Iguodala in there . Shoudln't you delete him from this list then ?

[_SRV_]

Richard Hamilton has been part of arguebly the best backcourt, surely he deserves more respect than just 11.
Rip, Ray Allen and Brandon Roy deserve to be higher than JRich, Carter, Ellis and Joe Johnson.

Also: I'd mark Wade as ineligible for rating, his past work gives him waiver for this year.

[Red Robot]

The whole middle part seems backwards. I'd have Roy, Hamilton, and Martin all ahead of Johnson, Iguodala, and Ellis. I'm especially interested in what Johnson and Iguodala did to make 5th and 6th.

Also, I can understand why you might have docked Wade, but I think it was too much. He's still more effective than at least 10 players ahead of him.

[Hood President]

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Allen Iverson
3. Manu Ginobli
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Joe Johnson
6. Rip Hamilton
7. Monta Ellis
8. Jason Richardson
9. Vince Carter
10. Brandon Roy
11. Andre Iguodala
12. Michael Redd
13. Kevin Martin
14. Ray Allen
15. Jamaal Crawford
16. Mike Dunleavy
17. Cory Maggette
18. Mike Miller
19. Dwayne Wade
20. Ben Gordan
21. Kevin Durant
22. Jason Terry
23. J.R Smith
24. Raja Bell
25. DeShawn Stevenson

[Patterns]

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Tracy McGrady
3. Manu Ginobli
4. Allen Iverson
5. Andre Iguodala
6. Brandon Roy
7. Monta Ellis
8. Vince Carter
9. Jason Richardson
10. Joe Johnson
11. Richard Hamilton
12. Michael Redd
13. Kevin Martin
14. Jamal Crawford
15. Ray Allen
16. Mike Dunleavy
17. Cory Maggette
18. Mike Miller
19. Dwayne Wade
20. Kevin Durant
21. Ben Gordon
22. Jason Terry
23. Anthony Parker
24. Raja Bell
25. DeShawn Stevenson

[HarlemHeat37]

#1- Kobe Bryant
#2- Dwyane Wade
#3- Tracy McGrady
#4- Manu Ginobili
#5- Allen Iverson
#6- Vince Carter
#7- Brandon Roy
#8- Andre Iggy
#9- Ray Allen
#10- Rip Hamilton
#11- Joe Johnson
#12- Michael Redd
#13- Monta Ellis
#14- Kevin Martin
#15- Jason Richardson
#16- Corey Maggette
#17- Mike Miller
#18- Ben Gordon
#19- Jason Terry
#20- Mike Dunleavy

[farzi]

Ive done Top 20 or 30 rankings for all positions in the beggining of the season, in the middle of the season and now the end of the season.

This list is based on play this year. Defense, Offense, Games Played, and to a lesser extent Team Success have all been considered while making these ranking. I hope you enjoy.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Allen Iverson
3. Manu Ginobli
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Joe Johnson
6. Monta Ellis
7. Vince Carter
8. Jason Richardson
9. Richard Hamilton
10. Brandon Roy
11. Michael Redd
12. Kevin Martin
13. Jamal Crawford
14. Ray Allen
15. Mike Dunleavy
16. Cory Maggette
17. Mike Miller
18. Dwayne Wade
19. Kevin Durant
20. Ben Gordon
21. Jason Terry
22. Anthony Parker
23. Ronnie Brewer
24. Raja Bell
25. DeShawn Stevenson

What do you guys think of this list? Who should be higher and who should be lower? What would your list look like?

Brandon Roy beat Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis (multiple times), Vince Carter (Richard Jefferson is a SF), and Rip Hamilton in WHO'S BETTER threads this season, and there's no way Richardson is better. Roy should be number 5.

[Scalabrine]

what the hell HarlemHeat, how on earth after this seasons play could you possibly rate Dwayne Wade number 2 on your list, not only did he play a little over half a season, he lead his team to 9 wins and turned the ball over almost 4 and a half times a game. Your nuts man. You would take Wade this season for 50 games over everyone other tahn Kobe for 70+ games? Ben Gordon and Jason Terry over Jamal Crawford?

Patterns you hijacked my list but moved McGrady and Roy up, why could you just say McGrady and Roy should be high haha.

[Scalabrine]

-= original quote snipped =-



Brandon Roy beat Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis (multiple times), Vince Carter (Richard Jefferson is a SF), and Rip Hamilton in WHO'S BETTER threads this season, and there's no way Richardson is better. Roy should be number 5.

haha I didnt vote in the WHOSE BETTER threads and if I had I would have voted all of those players over Roy, statistically they have all had better seasons then Roy. Your only argument is that Roy beat them in a Whose Better thread this season? Roy was way over hyped when they were playing well for that 20 game stretch, he shouldnt have been an all star this season but he did because ESPN and other sports writers were loving the story of the Blazers, where did all of that Nate McMillan for COY talk go? Roy is not a top 5 shooting guard.

[farzi]

-= original quote snipped =-



haha I didnt vote in the WHOSE BETTER threads and if I had I would have voted all of those players over Roy, statistically they have all had better seasons then Roy. Your only argument is that Roy beat them in a Whose Better thread this season? Roy was way over hyped when they were playing well for that 20 game stretch, he shouldnt have been an all star this season but he did because ESPN and other sports writers were loving the story of the Blazers, where did all of that Nate McMillan for COY talk go? Roy is not a top 5 shooting guard.

Maybe its just me, and many many other poeople, but I like the second year player putting up similar stats while playing 2 positions on the third youngest team of all time, in the deepest Western Conference of all time and leading them to at the worst a .500 record.

But you're right. Joe Johnson and Carter did score more points. However they did it on a worse team in the Eastern Conference. Monta Ellis probably has a higher ceiling than Roy, but for this year, Roy was the better player.

Rip Hamilton is the only one there that is really debatable. His team is certainly better, and he puts up similar stats. Rip is better defensively, Roy is better on offense. If you want to put Rip 5 and Roy 6, I can live with that. I think they're about even now, although Roy is several years younger.

And really? Jason Richardson?

[Scalabrine]

age doesnt really matter with this list as it is based on this season. Jason Richardson has had a very good season this year and is one of the more underrated players in the league. Hes deffinitly top 10 id say its debateable between him, Roy, Redd and Hamilton for those spots and its really a toss up.

[wigglestrue]

I think Crawford vs. Allen this season is debateable, Crawford averaged more assists and points per game then Allen while Allen shot better %'s. Crawford offensive game is better than Allens while Allen is a better shooter. I dont know I think Allens season wasnt as good as years past and Crawford had his best season. I think its very close (they are 14 and 15 on the list).

Crawford is one of the worst defensive presences in the NBA. Allen's assists and points were down because he was playing with great teammates, not because of some decline in his game. Was this meant to be a fantasy basketball ranking or something? Even if it were, Ray was ranked about 25 spots better than Jamal. And if it's about real life...dude...Ray Allen had a profoundly better year than Crawford, and is a profoundly better player than Crawford.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... 02&y2=2008

[ponder276]

Ive done Top 20 or 30 rankings for all positions in the beggining of the season, in the middle of the season and now the end of the season.

This list is based on play this year. Defense, Offense, Games Played, and to a lesser extent Team Success have all been considered while making these ranking. I hope you enjoy.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Allen Iverson
3. Manu Ginobli
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Joe Johnson
6. Monta Ellis
7. Vince Carter
8. Jason Richardson
9. Richard Hamilton
10. Brandon Roy
11. Michael Redd
12. Kevin Martin
13. Jamal Crawford
14. Ray Allen
15. Mike Dunleavy
16. Cory Maggette
17. Mike Miller
18. Dwayne Wade
19. Kevin Durant
20. Ben Gordon
21. Jason Terry
22. Anthony Parker
23. Ronnie Brewer
24. Raja Bell
25. DeShawn Stevenson

What do you guys think of this list? Who should be higher and who should be lower? What would your list look like?

Kevin Martin is 3rd among all SGs in scoring (23.7 ppg, behind only Kobe and AI), and is 1st among all SGs in TS% (.618 TS%). To put that in perspective, the highest TS% of Kobe's career was .580 (in 06/07), and the highest TS% of MJ's career was .614 (in 88/89). Kevin Martin is an unbelievably efficient scorer, people really underrate how valuable that is.

He scores slightly more than Michael Redd, and does so WAY more efficiently. He also draws more fouls - Kevin Martin is 5th in the league with 9.5 FTA/G, which is 2nd among SGs (AI get 9.8 FTA/G), and 1st in the league with 8.2 FTM/G. Redd gets 6.9 FTA/G, and converts 5.7.

Their other stats are roughly the same, with Redd being a slightly better assist man (4.5rpg, 2.1apg, 1.0spg for Martin, 4.3rpg, 3.5apg, 0.9spg for Redd).

Kevin Martin is a WAY more efficient clutch scorer. Redd's extremely selfish, extremely inefficient clutch play costs his team a TON of games. Their per 48min clutch stats are:
Kevin Martin - 34.4ppg, shooting .500/.429/.800
Michael Redd - 42.4ppg, shooting a terrible .395/.273/.830

Michael Redd is also somewhat of a team cancer, and is seen as a black hole on offense. Kevin Martin is liked by his teammates and flows well within the Kings offense. I cannot see how Redd can be ranked above Martin. I'd also put Martin ahead of JRich - Richardson is a slightly better assist and rebound man, but he scores less, at a much lower efficiency (.618 TS% vs. .553 TS%), and is a much worse clutch scorer (34.4ppg, shooting .500/.429/.800 for Martin vs. 26.6ppg, shooting .407/.364/.730).



Edit: For those who like PER (I think it's a pretty good stat), Kevin Martin is 3rd among SGs in PER (21.0), behind only Kobe and Manu.

[HarlemHeat37]

what the hell HarlemHeat, how on earth after this seasons play could you possibly rate Dwayne Wade number 2 on your list, not only did he play a little over half a season, he lead his team to 9 wins and turned the ball over almost 4 and a half times a game. Your nuts man. You would take Wade this season for 50 games over everyone other tahn Kobe for 70+ games? Ben Gordon and Jason Terry over Jamal Crawford?

Patterns you hijacked my list but moved McGrady and Roy up, why could you just say McGrady and Roy should be high haha.

obviously I wasn't ranking them based on this season alone, I don't do that..it's kind of pointless..I'm ranking them on how I view them in general, al things considered..

I rank Crawford as a PG, because his minutes went up at the 1 when Marbury went down..looking at his minutes at PG, they're very close to his minutes at SG, and that's including the 24 games that Steph played..