BARON & NELLIE: Much needed rest or something else poll

[St.Nick]

I see it the other way. If Baron opts out this year then we are immediately saving 17M in salary. Its like going in a time machine one year ahead where we have incredible cap space, but also having Monta get one year of experience under his belt as a full time PG.

And I think that Baron playing another season under a guy planting rumors about him having a substance abuse problem, well that could be an issue.

Hence, Ali G or whatever that guys name is, is not connected to Nelson as LF so implied.

[Sleepy51]

I see it the other way. If Baron opts out this year then we are immediately saving 17M in salary. Its like going in a time machine one year ahead where we have incredible cap space, but also having Monta get one year of experience under his belt as a full time PG.

And I think that Baron playing another season under a guy planting rumors about him having a substance abuse problem, well that could be an issue.

I see it that way too.

If we get the capspace to spend on depth and bigs now fine. We win. If we don't get the capspace now, but we get another contract year from talented player who has to be on his best behavior if he hopes to ever see that kind of money again, fine. We win.

The point I was making is that Baron has almost no leverage right now. I don't really take the rumor seriously, I was just spitballing that negative rumors just further weaken any leverage Baron had or could have over us.

As far as Baron's reaction to being manipulated? He has no legs to stand on. He's perceived around the league as manipulative and disloyal. His good relationship with Nellie has been what has restored some of his reputation. He can't jeopardize that unless he wants to end his career playing on $5mil 2 year deals for last place teams. Baron's pride is of no consequence while he still has to play for his future. That's the position he's in now unless some team with out a PG clears 15Mil in capspace for him by free agent season.

All that said, Jack is in that photo next to Monta taking a bottle of belvedere to the head. If Baron's babbysitter is an alkie, that does pose a bit of a problem.

[Mylie10]

I like the Baron/ Ellis back-court personally.

i think Baron will be the same as he was this year, next year.

There are many things that could be done going into the next trade deadline.

I feel that part of Baron's make-up is the feeling that he has to carry the team on his shoulders. He tries to do to much.

But with the emergence of Monta hopefully Baron will defer some of the load like he did towards the end of the year.

Bottom line is, if Baron had a Brand type down low, then you'd see a slightly different game from him. If we had more depth and your coach doesn't put everything on you, then maybe your game will tone down to getting others more involved.

Where's the "I'm gonna lead the League in assists" Baron. Because that guy's my favorite player. Haven't seen him as much as I'd like.

The key is to get help. The roster has to be worked without blowing us up.

This offseason is huge to me.

They can save some face or really eff this thing up.

Nellie still has to realize the importance of using everybody. We'd be in a much better place right now if that were the case.

We'd probably have similar wins as well.

[Sleepy51]

I like the Baron/ Ellis back-court personally.

i think Baron will be the same as he was this year, next year.

There are many things that could be done going into the next trade deadline.

I feel that part of Baron's make-up is the feeling that he has to carry the team on his shoulders. He tries to do to much.

But with the emergence of Monta hopefully Baron will defer some of the load like he did towards the end of the year.

Bottom line is, if Baron had a Brand type down low, then you'd see a slightly different game from him. If we had more depth and your coach doesn't put everything on you, then maybe your game will tone down to getting others more involved.

Where's the "I'm gonna lead the League in assists" Baron. Because that guy's my favorite player. Haven't seen him as much as I'd like.

Mylie, I see Baron similarly to how you do. I think he does try to do too much in a shallow roster, and I do think he would defer to talented teammates if we had the depth and the frontcourt presence to play 48 good minutes instead of 15. The problem is, all signs point to him wanting to be PAID like he will carry the team.

[The_Believer]

Baron flat out needs a babysitter... his trade value is NIL unless you aren't paying attention. His value is as an expiring or as a main cog to a desperate franchise.

He's already been called a quitter... he's spoiled. When he first got here with Monty, all the same stuff... how long did it take before pouty Baron came out? Then Monty's gone... here's Baron in Nellie's first season:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/332 ... e=Fielding

Baron was on the path in January to chuckstyle... 17-18 FGA per game, declining FG%... After the break/injury, w/Jax, Baron takes 4 less shots per game at 4% higher..

So putting Jax on the court gave Baron a kind of coach on the court... Jax became the emotional leader and the team fed off him. Baron's greatest success was when he had a coach that let him do what he wants and a guy who was the obvious leader on court...

In New Orleans, when did Diddy pout? Once Mash was gone, once the Hornets were leaning on HIM to be the leader. Took about 3/4 of a season in GS w/Monty... took him about 3 months with just Nellie, and about 1 1/4 years with Nellie/Jax...

Dude is NOT a leader... as soon as he feels he's the 'leader' he collapses... Jax was MIA for the last two months, and guess who else melted down...

Baron will never win a ring.

This was the perfect scenario for an egomaniac like him and he blew it.

Your post is inaccurate on many levels. First, Baron has very high trade value according to experts. His entertainment value alone makes him a very good marketing piece at the least. Second, Mash was definitely 2nd fiddle to Baron. It was Baron who dropped those triple doubles and destroyed TMAC that series. He also took a mediocre Hornets team within 1 game of ECF as a soph. What are his team's records without him? With him? In fact, if he can lead a bunch of mediocre teams pretty far, then why can't he lead some stars?

Also, BTW, what do you call the TMacs, Vinces, etc, who either haven't won a series as a first option, continually choke in the postseason, or quit on their teams. Keep in mind Baron's not a choker by any means and he has won 3 series as a number 1, including 2 monster ones.

[FNQ]

-= original quote snipped =-



Your post is inaccurate on many levels. First, Baron has very high trade value according to experts. His entertainment value alone makes him a very good marketing piece at the least. Second, Mash was definitely 2nd fiddle to Baron. It was Baron who dropped those triple doubles and destroyed TMAC that series. He also took a mediocre Hornets team within 1 game of ECF as a soph. What are his team's records without him? With him? In fact, if he can lead a bunch of mediocre teams pretty far, then why can't he lead some stars?

Also, BTW, what do you call the TMacs, Vinces, etc, who either haven't won a series as a first option, continually choke in the postseason, or quit on their teams. Keep in mind Baron's not a choker by any means and he has won 3 series as a number 1, including 2 monster ones.

According to experts... which experts? The ones here or the ones on the trade board?

Anyone who's paying attention sees Baron pulling the exact same act for the third time.

Mash was 2nd fiddle to Baron? Dont you mean that Mash was injured for the playoffs? It was Mash's team until they gave it to Baron after that season... and then what happened? Baron crapped out... sub 40FG%... kept declining until they traded him to Monty, where the process started again.

That team that Baron 'led' in his sophmore year... one of the best defensive teams.... mediocre What would that make this team right now then?

Baron hasn't led **** anywhere... any team w/him as the unquestioned leader goes down in flames...

TMac and Vince are choke artists... can't handle pressure. Baron can handle the last minute shots... its the other 47 minutes as the chucking leader he cannot handle.

But hey, glad you proved to me that an emotional player can get hot over the course of a few games... that's what a leader is supposed to do right? Coast and chuck most of the time, then turn it on for a couple weeks or so at a time... thats how all great leaders are

EDIT: The collective naive-ness on Baron on this board is becoming alarming... 1st people can't see the path of franchise destruction Nellie usually becomes.. now apparently we're turning a blind eye to the past facts of Baron's personality/playing issues...

I blame Jax... if it didn't turn out he was a gritty, fiery leader who, despite chucking, has been a huge positive as far as leadership and community go, we'd still be concerned about this stuff... we thought we got a thug and got a solid vet player... so now we turn deaf ears to the past... its sad.

[turk3d]

I'm going to have to agree with you this believer, you make some very salient points. Maybe that's been part of Baron's problem all along, playing with mediocre teams and $hitty coaches (Nellie being the best he's had but still with much to be desired), with the expectation that he has to be "superman" and get these teams to the playoffs and beyond by carrying them on his back. He did last season up to the 2nd round. Maybe if he was 7'2 like Shaq, he could be superman. Any of those players you mentioned get that far with their respective teams? All are so-called "all stars" too aren't they?

[The_Believer]

^^^ Didn't you watch the 02 series? What about last year?