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What if ATL signs and trades J Smoothe?

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Post#21 » by parson » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:46 pm

Rip2137 wrote:There are all of 4 players better at the center position than Josh is a the PF position.

I agree with you and even if you expanded that statement to list those centers who are equal or potentially equal to Smoove the list would be small: Bynum, Oden, ???
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Post#22 » by trickydik » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:46 pm

i would trade marvin for the 8-12th pick in this years draft , get a "True Center"

DeAndre Jordan 7' 250 Texas A&M
JaVale McGee 7' 237 Nevada
Robin Lopez 7' 255 Stanford


move chill up to starting SF

trade zaza for the best SF or we can get or a 2nd , you think we could get posey from the celtics for him ?

Being that andersen is coming over , he could spell minutes at the 4 and maybe the 5 , and if we have any money left over fill in the gaps at free agency.

Bibby/Law (Speedy)
Joe/M.West/Salim
Chill/Posey ??/
Smith/Andersen
Horford/10th pick Jordan/Solo

it's just ideas , and if the center pans out , in a couple years we could trade josh for something we need and move horford down to PF.

i think getting the hawks a Big Center such as Jordan , Mcgee or Lopez will help our D out big time and we don't have to throw him into the fire right away , we would have time to develop him like bynum.

what you guys think ?
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Post#23 » by JoshB914 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:17 pm

I don't see Marvin being nearly enough t get the 8-12 pick.
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Post#24 » by Rip2137 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:47 pm

I think there are plenty of teams that would take a 22 year old, 3 year vet in Marvin Williams, seeing what he can offer now, over a untested rookie that you would get at that spot.

8 might be too high, but 10 and up, I think you could get that pick.

With that said though, I want Marvin to play out his rookie contract to see where he is.

His problem now is consistancy. I do have a problem with him hitting the rookie wall in his third year(although I don't think he has played this many minutes in games in a row since turning pro), but I am not ready to give up on him yet.

he is clearly the weakspot in the starting lineup though.
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Post#25 » by JoshB914 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:53 pm

You guys are really overrating Marv. He's in his third year now and has not shown the ability to be a conisistent contributor yet. We might be able to get a late first rdr for him.
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Post#26 » by SportsFan215 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:07 pm

What about Chris Kaman for Josh (S&T)?
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Post#27 » by HoopsGuru25 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:11 pm

The Hawks can get much more for Marvin that a late 1st rounder...come on now. Darko played like 2 minutes a game and still got Detroit the 15th pick in the draft. He's 21 years old and averaging 15 ppg...he could probably get us a pick between 10-14.
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Post#28 » by conleyorbust » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:34 pm

HoopsGuru25 wrote:The Hawks can get much more for Marvin that a late 1st rounder...come on now. Darko played like 2 minutes a game and still got Detroit the 15th pick in the draft. He's 21 years old and averaging 15 ppg...he could probably get us a pick between 10-14.


To say he'll only get a late round pick is a little off considering what type of players you get b/w 10-14. Look at the swingmen from last season (easier to judge): Marv looks like he'll be worse than Thad, as good (I think better) than the 46 year old Thornton, and better than Wright. That isn't to say anything of Brewer/Green both of whom have as serious of ?s as Marv.

Consider that the player Donte Green is most often compared to is Marvin Williams. Not to say Green couldn't be better but at the end of the day most picks after the first 10 are going to end up being average - some stars, some duds.

I don't think we are in a position that we absolutely HAVE to trade Marv but if there is a GM out there that thinks he has what it takes to be a star and is willing to pay us accordingly, I'd be willing to gamble that he won't be.

Marv just needs to be able to hit the 3 and I'd be totally happy. Consider that he would have to shoot 60% with those long 2s to have the same effect as 40% from 3. Oh, and he has to be better on D because our perimeter defense is weak.

What about Chris Kaman for Josh (S&T)?


Its intriguing... Kaman isn't actually any more efficient as a scorer than Josh and he doesn't put up points at the same volume either. He is as bad with turnovers but worse with passing and he doesn't have the open court ability or the versatility on D. On the other hand he could compensate for the loss of shotblocking and he is a monster rebounder.

If your rationale for moving Josh is that you think he makes too many mental mistakes and won't improve much more as a player, trading for Kaman doesn't make sense because he has as many mental lapses as anyone in the sport. If your rationale is that you think Horford will be that much better as a PF next to a 7-footer with some offensive game... maybe but I don't think it makes too much sense.

I also don't see why the Clippers do it when they already have Brand at PF unless they want to move Brand to C full time which seems like a mistake.
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Post#29 » by HoopsGuru25 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:46 pm

If you look back and look at the picks 10-14..you will see that it's pretty hard to find a player as good as Marvin. I went back and looked at the 10-14 picks in the last 3 drafts and I only found two players I would definitely trade Marvin for and only a few more I would even consider trading him for.

Spencer Hawes(no)
Acie Law(no)
Thad Young(yes)
Julian Wright(probably not)
Al Thornton(no)

Saer Sene(no)
J.J. Redick(no)
Hilton Armstrong(no)
Thabo Sefolosha(no)
Ronnie Brewer(would consider it)

Andrew Bynum(yes)
Fran Vazquez(no)
Yarsaslev Korelev(who?)
Sean May(no)
Rashad Mccants(no)
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Post#30 » by SportsFan215 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:10 pm

How about something like:

Kaman/Mobley for Josh (S&T)/Claxton

or

Kaman/Mobley/Knight for Josh (S&T)/Claxton/Zaza
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Post#31 » by betta1 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:51 pm

Kwame Brown did yield Caron Butler, so anything's possible.
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Post#32 » by SportsFan215 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:54 pm

I thought you guys were looking for a good center to slide Al to PF. Plus this would be taking Claxton and possibly Zaza off your hands.
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Post#33 » by JoshB914 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:18 pm

I know Al is a natural PF, but I think he's going to be at center as long as we have Smoove. If we get a good backup C we will be able to move Al to PF when we need to.
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Post#34 » by dms269 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:08 pm

SportsFan215 wrote:I thought you guys were looking for a good center to slide Al to PF. Plus this would be taking Claxton and possibly Zaza off your hands.


But we have to take back Mobely and his 2 years left, 18.9 million due. That basically negates any "good" the Clippers are trying to do by taking speedy and Zaza.
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Post#35 » by HoopsGuru25 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:15 pm

uga...do you honestly think getting rid of Zaza/Speedy for Mobley is a negative?
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Post#36 » by SportsFan215 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:25 pm

Mobley could replace Childress if he leaves. Mobley is also a good guy to have around in the locker room.
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Post#37 » by conleyorbust » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:22 pm

SportsFan215 wrote:How about something like:

Kaman/Mobley for Josh (S&T)/Claxton

or

Kaman/Mobley/Knight for Josh (S&T)/Claxton/Zaza


We'd have to sign Josh to a small contract for that to work.

What would the Clippers do with Smith? You'd have Brand, Smith, and Thorton competing for starting minutes at the 4 + Tim Thomas. Literally all your good players would be at the 4.

Anyway, I'd prefer to keep Smith than have Kaman although that wouldn't be terrible value for him.
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Post#38 » by dms269 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:15 am

HoopsGuru25 wrote:uga...do you honestly think getting rid of Zaza/Speedy for Mobley is a negative?


Zaza's contract expires and Speedy's is much less than Mobley's.

I would rather have those pieces to trade away than have to deal with a 3rd string player making 9+ million a year.
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Post#39 » by HoopsGuru25 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:08 am

Are you serious? I'm not sure about the Kaman/Smith part but I'd get rid of Speedy/Zaza for Mobley in a heartbeat if it was offered.

1. Mobley is not a 3rd stringer. He's a useful shooting guard who happens to be overpaid. He can shoot and defend and would improve our bench.

2. Speedy is not only overpaid but HE DOESN'T PLAY.

3. Signing Mobley means we wouldn't have to re-sign Childress.... which means we could use the MLE on a guy like Diop. There's no way in hell I'd take a Zaza/Chil combo off the bench over a Mobley/Diop combo considering this team's weaknesses.
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Post#40 » by dms269 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:31 am

And why can't we have both Diop and Chill? The question is whether you would take Mobley over Chill. We can sign Diop to the MLE, then match Chill's offer because we own his bird rights.

I would rather have Chill over Mobley, and as a result Mobley would be a 3rd stringer if we matched Chill.
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