Dwight Howard vs. Amare Stoudemire

Greer · Post #21 » by **Greer** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:32 pm

This is Dwight in a landslide. Amare picks up fouls like no other and doesn't even know the meaning of defense. Amare is better on offense but only by a small amount. He benefits greatly from having nash and shaq on his team.

Cevap · Post #22 » by **Cevap** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:41 pm

I wouldn't go that far and say it's Dwight by a landslide since Amare's offense is unstoppable for a big man. Sure he's three years older and not as big but he is still a beast in his own right. I'd take Dwight since he's younger but I dunno, I know it sounds weird but I expected more from him this season. After dominating the first couple months he "quieted" down and imo wasn't as good as he can be. Whether it's the system or the stupid PG's that hold him back I feel that Dwight is not maximizing his potential to the fullest.

Greer · Post #23 » by **Greer** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:54 pm

Cevap wrote:I wouldn't go that far and say it's Dwight by a landslide since Amare's offense is unstoppable for a big man. Sure he's three years older and not as big but he is still a beast in his own right. I'd take Dwight since he's younger but I dunno, I know it sounds weird but I expected more from him this season. After dominating the first couple months he "quieted" down and imo wasn't as good as he can be. Whether it's the system or the stupid PG's that hold him back I feel that Dwight is not maximizing his potential to the fullest.

Oh it is Dwight in a landslide. Everyone loves offense and it looks good but defense and rebounding wins games and championships. Dwight would completely destroy Amare in a one on one situation.

Cevap · Post #24 » by **Cevap** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:26 pm

And Jason Williams could beat Jason Kidd in a one on one situation. Doesn't make him a better player now, does it?

Amare is close to perfect on offense as of now and has the tools to improve on defense. Dwight is awesome on defense and rebounding but is not as dominant on offense. Once Dwight starts to play up to his true potential it'll be a wrap, but as of now there's not that big of a gap between them with Dwight leading.

Basileus777 · Post #25 » by **Basileus777** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:33 pm

One on one is worthless for this type of comparison, but Dwight couldn't guard Amare in that situation anyways.

ronnymac2 · Post #26 » by **ronnymac2** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:38 pm

[quote="Cevap"]And Jason Williams could beat Jason Kidd in a one on one situation. Doesn't make him a better player now, does it?

color=green] ummm....Jason williams is better than j-kidd....he has a ring. duh..jeez...[/color]

ronnymac2 · Post #27 » by **ronnymac2** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:41 pm

ahhhh **** wait how do u put things in green...the thing i just said was suposed to be in green...sorry im new here lol

Greer · Post #28 » by **Greer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:10 am

Cevap wrote:And Jason Williams could beat Jason Kidd in a one on one situation. Doesn't make him a better player now, does it?

Amare is close to perfect on offense as of now and has the tools to improve on defense. Dwight is awesome on defense and rebounding but is not as dominant on offense. Once Dwight starts to play up to his true potential it'll be a wrap, but as of now there's not that big of a gap between them with Dwight leading.

Lets take it a little overboard eh? Like extreme cases between Jason Kidd and Jason Williams. Anyways I will break everything down for you.

Dwight plays defense. Amare doesn't. Amare has the third worst opponents PER in the entire league. Dwight is in the top 5 or 10 in opponents PER. Dwight anchors a top 10 defensive team. Amare picks up fouls at an alarming rate when he actually has to guard someone like duncan. Dwight is a better shot blocker and a much more intimidating one. Dwight is a better rebounder by a large margin. Amare couldn't do what dwight is doing everynight on orlando. Could amare play alongside Rashard and guard the opposing teams best low post scorer and dominate the boards? Probably not he would foul out in 30 minutes or just continue with his horrible opponents PER average.

Offensively Amare is better, but only by a small amount. Reason why? Dwight does get way way more attention. Dwight receives more double and triple teams. Dwight doesn't get to play with nash. Dwight doesn't get to play with Shaq. Amare's sudden surge in ppg over the second half of the season started once shaq got there. Coincidence? I believe so. And to suggest Dwight isn't a dominant offensive player is insane. Why do teams double him and leave all of orlando's 3 point shooters open, Orlando is the best 3 point shooting team in the nba and one of the better ones in nba history.

Cevap · Post #29 » by **Cevap** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:04 am

nice post. It's just my opinion though that the difference between dwight and amare on defense is not that large compared to amare's defense and dwight's defense for it to be a landslide victory this season. Amare's been dominant on offense, he's better in all aspects of the game on that side over Howard. Free Throws, Jumpers, passing, running off the ball, turnovers etc. are all better with Amare. He's prolly the best offensive PF/C today along with Nowitzki. Howard prolly will surpass him sooner rather then later but as of now it's the outstanding offense that he provides that makes him a top 5 big man in the league. When you're that good there's no apparent landslide victories unless you're talking about Kobe, Bron, or Paul. Just my two cents

j-ragg · Post #30 » by **j-ragg** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:08 am

kookie_819 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Green font?

Not a big fan of using it, especially when statements are obviously facetious.

eatyourchildren · Post #31 » by **eatyourchildren** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:38 am

Um, Amare is advanced offensively? Since when?

His offense consists of:
A. 14-18 foot jumper and
B. Diving into the lane to receive a pass from Nash, for the flush.

How is that lightyears better than Dwight Howard, who at least tries to post up and do a spin move here or there?

If you're a big man, I expect you to have at least 2-3 back-to basket moves+counters. Amare has about zero.

Duiz · Post #32 » by **Duiz** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:57 am

Sans D'Antoni or Nash... STAT is no stat.. To me his stats are really empty.

Post #33 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:01 pm

ITK9 wrote:i understand those choose d12 over amare but it's a joke to comapre them in offense.d12 has zero low post moves and no Jump shot.

Not true. This post summed it up nicely...

ronnymac2 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

thats not totally true. Howard draws many fouls, has developed a decent hook shot, and slashes pretty well. He also works to get good position for layups and dunks. He also runs the break and is good on the pick-n-roll. And yes, he gets a lot of putbacks, o-boards, and loose balls...but thats not a bad thing, and thats not his only way of scoring, either.

But he neglects to note that Howard's footwork is developing, that he's spinning baseline from time to time and the root of his problems are not offensive moves, which he has, but passing counters and a jump shot.

It's true that he has no range, has no fallaway, no turnaround, no spot-up jumper to make the defense work. Those are the things that would make him literally unstoppable. But he's got Shaq-like offense right now, or he's closing in on it. Rookie Shaq, but still.

Howard still needs to work on his turnovers a bit but he's improved and has lowered his foul rate as well. He makes strides every season an people still fall back on popular (but incorrect) criticisms for no good reason.

eatyourchildren wrote:Um, Amare is advanced offensively? Since when?

His offense consists of:
A. 14-18 foot jumper and
B. Diving into the lane to receive a pass from Nash, for the flush.

How is that lightyears better than Dwight Howard, who at least tries to post up and do a spin move here or there?

If you're a big man, I expect you to have at least 2-3 back-to basket moves+counters. Amare has about zero.

This is just plainly untrue. Amare has a good face-up game from the low post kind of like a more advanced version of Chris Bosh. He's got the basic first-step-and-gone, the face-up jumper, the baseline spin, he can even work for a short-ranged jump shot.

So you are completely incorrect.

Yes, Amare builds his offense out of mid-range jumpers, the sidescreen and off-ball movement that gets him a pass en route to the basket with momentum but that's smart off-ball movement that compliments his isolation offense. He makes it very clear EVERY year that he can score in an iso scenario, especially against the Spurs in the playoffs. How can you fail to have noticed that?

And criticizing Amare for making use of assisted baskets is nominally ridiculous in a conversation about Howard, who benefits so regularly from alley-oops, transition baskets and offensive rebounds, none of which require significant on-ball shot creation, the trait you are so loudly implying separates Dwight from Amare.

EDIT: I suppose I should choose, eh... I choose Howard because he's a much better rebounder and defender and his offensive game would be a lot more effective if he had a real point guard instead of Jameer Nelson or Carlos Arroyo... not that Nash makes Amare, mind, but because Howard doesn't have Stoudemire's jumper and is therefore more reliant on the others to get him the ball in scoring positions, since he's limited to the low post for the most part.

Anyway, I still take Dwight because he's a considerably more valuable player overall, even if he's generally less explosive as a scorer.

The Diesel · Post #34 » by **The Diesel** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:21 pm

VERY tough question:

- I think Amare is definitely the better scorer, but Dwight is much better defensively.

If I had to choose, I would still go with Amare. I think he has a killer instinct that Dwight doesn't.

Amare is so competitive and he has a quality where he can just will his team to a victory.

I don't think Dwight has that...

And by the way, I am a HUGE fan of Dwight. Along with Shaq, he's my favorite player in the NBA.

But I still think Amare is better; VERY close though!