Less Smoove-More Horford

[Jamaaliver]

After watching basically our entire team struggle against the big bad Celtics, is anyone else ready to hand the reins over to AL Horford as the centerpiece of our team? A-Ho is our best big man and is only getting better.
It seemed the main thing our team was missing (other than anyone who could hit a jumpshot) was a defensive center in the middle of the paint. Allen, Rondo and all the green team got so many offensive rebounds and second chance points in the paint it was ridiculous.

It's time to switch Horford back to the 4 spot and trade any and all of our young talent (Smoove, Marvin, chills) for a C to roam the middle. A Bigman with "Josh Smith" defensive abilities.

Tyson Chandler
Emeka Okafor
Marcus Camby
LaMarcus Aldridge
Samuel Dalembert
Roy Hibbert

Any of these guys would fit the bill.

Man i miss Mutombo.

[JoshB914]

I don't really see any of our players being consistently good against that defense.

[raleigh]

is anyone else ready to hand the reins over to AL Horford as the centerpiece of our team?

Yes. I'm scared to death that a big contract over the summer will prevent Smith from actually learning how to play PF.

The Marvin/Horford forward combo is a much better one long-term, IMHO.

[tontoz]

Allen, Rondo and all the green team got so many offensive rebounds and second chance points in the paint it was ridiculous.

Horford was hardly blameless for this. he had only 3 defensive rebounds in 39 minutes.

On the season Horford averaged only .4 more defensive rebounds than Smith.

I don't see either guy getting traded unless we get an offer we can't refuse.

[conleyorbust]

Allen, Rondo and all the green team got so many offensive rebounds and second chance points in the paint it was ridiculous.

Horford was hardly blameless for this. he had only 3 defensive rebounds in 39 minutes.

On the season Horford averaged only .4 more defensive rebounds than Smith.

I don't see either guy getting traded unless we get an offer we can't refuse.

Horford was great on offense last night but he is our center, played the entire game, and pulled down 3 defensive rebounds.

Smith was on the bench because he had 2 fouls (and Mike Woodson is a (Please Use More Appropriate Word)) for half the game. Don't blame him for things he has nothing to do with.

Beyond that, Horford wasn't doing his damage with the ball in his hands. He did a great job moving to open spots and grabbing offensive boards but he hasn't ever consistently shown the ability to beat opposing defenders with his skill. Not that he won't be able to in the future, he just doesn't really do it now.

To say that he is our "best big man" is just plain wrong. He has been fantastically consistent as a rookie but he has a ways to go before he impacts a game like Smith, even if Smith is a very flawed player in many regards.

I wouldn't trade him for any of those guys listed.

Roy Hibbert... is that a joke? You would trade Josh Smith for Roy Hibbert? Seriously?

[Retrovision]

Roy Hibbert is the black Aaron Gray. HE SUCKS!
I would trade J-Smoove for Tyson, but thats the only one on the list.

[SportsFan215]

Is this when we talk about Chris Kaman for J-Smoove deal again?

[LL Cool Scott]

Josh Smith, Al Horford, and Joe Johnson are the centerpieces for this team's future. Period. Marvin is nowhere near the talent Smith is (offensively or especially defensively). I really hope we package Marvin (while he still has some trade value) and Bibby's expiring contract for a shot-blocking big man or a top notch point. Imagine this 5:

Acie Law (if he pans out)
Joe Johnson
Josh Smith (assuming he continues his rapid improvement offensively)
Al Horford (soon to be a 20 and 12 guy)
Mysterious Anchor in the middle

That team could do some damage if Josh Smith and Al Horford fulfill their enormous potential.

(This is all assuming we replace BK with a competent GM...a big "if")

[tontoz]

Mysterious Anchor in the middle

That team could do some damage if Josh Smith and Al Horford fulfill their enormous potential.

The problem is that Mysterious Anchor doesn't have a name, and certainly won't come cheap if he is available. More than likely we will have to settle for a big, flawed player to help Al out at center and hopefully banish Zaza to the bench permanently.

Smith and Horford are going to needs some time to fulfill their potential, if they do which is no sure thing. But i think the Hawks pretty much have to keep them because those two fulfilling their potential may be the only real hope the Hawks have of being contenders since BK has...... well you know.

[Rip2137]

Wow. All it takes is one game and you are ready to trade the guy, huh.

[lilvietboi085]

biedrins for smoove?

[LL Cool Scott]

Wow. All it takes is one game and you are ready to trade the guy, huh.

Not at all. It's been apparent for a while that Horford needs to be playing the 4, which means we've got 2 guys (Smith and Williams) for one spot (the 3). And Josh is simply the better all-around player with the most potential. One of them is going to have to go eventually, so I'd rather trade Williams than Smith. He still has a lot of trade value, so I'd prefer we do it this offseason to maximum what we could get in return.

(Ironically, I really like Marvin because I've been a Tarheel fan since I was a toddler)

[SportsFan215]

^ You really think J. Smith's position is the 3 and not the 4? IMO, if you play the 3, you have to hit the outside jumper with ease.

[BigAlHorfordROY]

It is a pipe dream to think Josh Smith will ever play 3 in the NBA. Sure he makes some flashy dunks and some killer blocks, but he can't hit a jumpshot, handle the ball, or pass the ball.

Long term I would love to see him here, but at the same time I think Horford will be the best option for this team at the 4.

Offseason-

Sign and trade Josh Smith

Resign Chillz

Trade Marvin for a firstround pick or a servicable big man

Bibby
Joe
Chillz
Horford
Trade

This would be our best move going forward

[HMFFL]

Many fans of the game that I have discussed this with off this site seem to think Josh Smith would make a good 3. It scares me to even think about Josh Smith at the 3. He's not consistent enough and I just seem him struggling very much. A team needs to be balance and that type of transition would be a complete failure. Also, many fans that I have come across like to argue the fact that Josh Smith would knock down some 3 pointers, but they don't take into account the amount of open looks or jumpers that would also be missed.

While Marvin doesn't bring us everything we need, he's still better suited at the 3, and we can thank Billy Knight for the position jam that we are currently dealing with.

[conleyorbust]

It is a pipe dream to think Josh Smith will ever play 3 in the NBA. Sure he makes some flashy dunks and some killer blocks, but he can't hit a jumpshot, handle the ball, or pass the ball.

Long term I would love to see him here, but at the same time I think Horford will be the best option for this team at the 4.

Offseason-

Sign and trade Josh Smith

Resign Chillz

Trade Marvin for a firstround pick or a servicable big man

Bibby
Joe
Chillz
Horford
Trade

This would be our best move going forward

I think this reasoning is just incredibly flawed. You are basically saying that since we have a player who is productive at the 5 but MIGHT be more productive at the 4, we should trade our already productive 4 for another player who you can't think of.

First off, there is no proof at all that Horford is better at the 4 than the 5. There is reasonable conjecture but I don't remember him simply overpowering players at the 4 any more than he can outquick guys at the 5 and he isn't a better PnR defender than he is a post defender... as it stands, there is no proof that he is a better player at the 4 but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

What there is absolutely no proof of is that he would be a more effective PF than Smith is now. You can assume whatever you want but he is around the same age as Smith so he isn't going to improve at a much higher rate. He isn't a better face-up or post player, he isn't a better defender, he is a better rebounder though.

This is not to say that I don't think he has a chance to be better than Smith. He just isn't yet. So far he has been most effective as a player who scores off other guys. He has done a good job of moving in space and finishing, crashing the glass, and towards the end of the season he was hitting his midrange J with some consistency. That sounds like Tyson Chandler with a J, not Carlos Boozer.

I love what Horford has done for this team, but unless you can name the center you think Smith should be traded for I don't think an SnT for the sake of an SnT is a good idea.

[JoshB914]

What wrong with Horford at the 5? He's doing a fantastic job and will only get better. What we need to do is get a good backup big man (Andersen?) and slide him over to the 4 when Smoove is resting. Or if we really need offense, we could play him at the 4 and Smoove at the 3 down the stretch.

[Jamaaliver]

I think the biggest thing we (I) are getting at, is that DEFENSIVELY, we could benefit more from a combo of Horford plus a real center than we currently do from horford and Smoove.

Horford already averages more rpg than any Hawks player since Mutombo. He does so with little pro experience and constanly being undersized compared to other teams' Centers. Horford averages a double-double against larger, taller, stronger Centers.

Imagine the abuse he can dish if moved to PF and protected by a larger, stronger bigman in the paint.

Camby and Horford would make a delicious combo in the paint. More terrifying than a defensive combo of Smith and Horford.

[conleyorbust]

I think the biggest thing we (I) are getting at, is that DEFENSIVELY, we could benefit more from a combo of Horford plus a real center than we currently do from horford and Smoove.

Horford already averages more rpg than any Hawks player since Mutombo. He does so with little pro experience and constanly being undersized compared to other teams' Centers. Horford averages a double-double against larger, taller, stronger Centers.

Imagine the abuse he can dish if moved to PF and protected by a larger, stronger bigman in the paint.

Camby and Horford would make a delicious combo in the paint. More terrifying than a defensive combo of Smith and Horford.

I'm confused, you think trading Smith for Camby makes our team better? You realize that Camby is a bad low post defender, right?

Look, if Camby were here instead of Smith, Horford would still have to defend the strongest post player on the other team. Biedrins, Camby, Chandler, those types of guys aren't good post defenders because they are so skinny. Are those guys as versatile on D? As good at stopping the fast break? Maybe... big emphasis on maybe, we get a big guy who is a great post defender AND shotblocker who can also grab more rebounds than Smith... that makes us a better team defensively; but how is that guy on offense.

Now if we could trade Smith for Oden or Howard - I'm all for it. I just think that Camby for Smith makes this team worse in the short run and a LOT worse in the long run. Maybe I'm missing something though.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I would trade anyone on the team if it meant we got better but you have to give me a realistic trade and a fully articulated rationale for why it makes us better on the whole.

[HoopsGuru25]

Camby is bound to break down soon. I did find something interesting though...Camby barely made any impact defensively on Denver while the Hawks defense was much worse when Smith didn't play. I've read the Denver board over the years and it seems like they think Kmart/Nene are actually better overall defenders than Camby. I will say it again...but the Hawks aren't going to get a good big man unless they take a risk. I believe Nene(very strong and athletic also a good post defender)is the one guy who could possibly be a long term answer at center who we could get w/o trading the farm for.