Maybe Skiles will actually get to Charlie V.

unklchuk · Post #21 » by **unklchuk** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:56 pm

I agree Charlie has some stand-apart offensive skills - or half has them.

I tend to agree, in general, that Charlie V is unlikely to buckle down in response to pressure from a coach. He's not going to become a true believer in the standard values so many want their athletes to show. He sees things differently. Folks are free to call it laziness, but in my book it's a little different than that. (Has something to do, I suspect, with what he thinks *deserves* passion and effort. With staying away from Group Think.)

But I remain curious how he'll react to a team atmosphere that should change markedly, and a coach who knows and clearly expresses what he wants. It's possible, I believe, that he'll reach one of those maturing decisions: that, yes, although NBA basketball isn't worth much in the context of the whole world - it's cotton candy at the State Fair - but it's what I'm doing and, in the moment, it's worth an all-out effort. Because life is worth an all-out effort.

He's likely to be traded before there's a chance of that happening. I'll wish him well at his next stop.

xTitan · Post #22 » by **xTitan** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:03 pm

Nowak008 wrote:Best offensive player on the team? I suppose if you only count his good games. CV is not close to the efficiency of either Mo or Redd. One thing that is encouraging is CV was actually making his 3 point attempts.

I think Skiles will have a better chance of getting Mo to defend given Mo's work eithic.

You are far and away.....................................my favorite poster on here.....

EastSideBucksFan · Post #23 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:05 pm

I think there's a better chance of Villanueva coming into camp with an afro than Skiles being able to get him to play defense.

Nowak008 · Post #24 » by **Nowak008** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:17 pm

xTitan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You are far and away.....................................my favorite poster on here.....

You aren't the only one who would say that.

Post #25 » by **Three34** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:34 pm

One of Scott's problems as a Bulls coach was his belief that he could coach big men on his own. At Skiles's request, they never hired a big man coach under his regime. How much this hindered progress is open to speculation, but suffice to say, Luol Deng never learned how to post u plike he threatened.

Skiles is extremely good at teaching the intracies of defense, though. Eddy Curry and Michael Sweetney played the best defense of their careers when with us. (You could say that they played the ONLY defense of their careers here.) Tyson Chandler, too, was best here. He was a legitimate DPOY candidate. (He has gone on to bigger and better numbers in his Hornets days, but his defense has declined. It used to b spectacular. Now, he's just a rebounder. A damn good one, admittedly.)

What I think you should be more excited about is what this could do for Bogut. Bogut has shown much improved help defense, and given how good Skiles is at teaching help defense (and diagraming his defensive schemes to depend upon it), this bodes well for him. Bogut might get pretty good on defense in time.

As for Charlie....couldn't say. But Skiles managed to get Eddy Curry to block a shot a game, so anything's possible.

unklchuk · Post #26 » by **unklchuk** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:45 pm

"You aren't the only one who would say that."

This may have been a fishing expedition. Nevertheless, I'd say that I've learned that even tho you're on opposite sides of many discussions here, and even tho you flash a younger man's stream of consciousness (whatever the hell that means) I've learned to be ready to recognize both insight and humor in your posts. My opinion is just that, but it's worth one vote.

smalls · Post #27 » by **smalls** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:18 am

bigkurty wrote:CV reminds me of Tim Thomas and no one ever got through to him so I say trade him immediately. With the way he finished off the year scoring and rebounding, his value might never be this high again.

nail on the head. CV is the kind of player who flashes just enuf to get hopes up but never comes thru enuf to actually contribute to a winning team. He is the type of talent that gets coaches fired and teams sent to the lotto. That said if Skiles can work miracles and get thru to CV he could be a star in this league i just doubt very much that it will happen.

gobbler · Post #28 » by **gobbler** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:24 am

Well, I'll hope. Maybe CV can be used as the 1 defensive liability Skiles & Hammond believe you can cover up - when he comes off the bench as Redd or someone comes off the floor. Or maybe he'll get the point that he has to play D to stay on the floor long enough to jack up shots.

CV is better offensively than Tim Thomas was or is.

Raptors90102 · Post #29 » by **Raptors90102** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:02 am

I think what CV suffers from is the lack of confidence shown in him by the coaching staff. In Toronto, Smitch was on his case all the time and showed confidence in him yet at th same time adopted the "I have full faith in you, but you gotta play hard to justify it.. " and it worked well.. CV was not a defensive anchor but he played consistantly.. Smitch was never a very good defensive coach, so maybe thats why CV never played good D.. Skiles is a good defensive mind and if he can get through to CV, its going to be a great match. But chances are Skiles will alienate CV and CV will bolt..

bogutsdad · Post #30 » by **bogutsdad** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:04 am

I reckon we start the season with CV under skiles and give him 20 games to come around under the new coach and if he is still same old charlie by then, :wave:

charlie

unklchuk · Post #31 » by **unklchuk** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:36 am

Reading in the other thread of CV likely being the guy displeased at the idea of Coach Stiles, and reading of his closeness/identifying with Bulls players who dislike Stiles, cools my hope for his prospects here.

Hopefully coach and player will have a Simmons-like talk - and then the team will do what needs doing. Giving him a start-of-season chance if they think it's worth it and moving him on otherwise.

SidTheMan4 · Post #32 » by **SidTheMan4** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:41 am

I love the Tim Thomas comparisons. TT at least played on good teams and hit big shots for good teams. CV played on bad teams and put up good numbers when it didn't matter. TT is way better than Charlie is.

bentley · Post #33 » by **bentley** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:41 am

SidTheMan4 wrote:I love the Tim Thomas comparisons. TT at least played on good teams and hit big shots for good teams. CV played on bad teams and put up good numbers when it didn't matter. TT is way better than Charlie is.

TT was so great in Philadelphia as a high draft pick that Larry Brown gave up on him fairly early--he knew that TT just didn't have a 100%
attitude EVER and traded him to Milwaukee. TT would try every once and a while and be a great scorer and every once in a while an all around player--Skiles cannot change the DNA of the "every once in a while" Charlie Villanueva. It doesn't necessarily mean that CV is worthless or a bad teammate however.

gobbler · Post #34 » by **gobbler** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:53 pm

SidTheMan4 wrote:I love the Tim Thomas comparisons. TT at least played on good teams and hit big shots for good teams. CV played on bad teams and put up good numbers when it didn't matter. TT is way better than Charlie is.

I don't know about everyone else, but when I favor CV, I'm talking about skill set and ability, not what they've done. TT has been around for a while and CV's had two seasons.