Who is the better player between Carmelo and Iguodola?
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Who is the better player between Carmelo and Iguodola?
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Peanut
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Who is the better player between Carmelo and Iguodola?
I'm not asking who do you want on your team. I'm asking who is the better player. I say Carmelo.
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prekazi
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wigglestrue
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... 01&y2=2008
Iguodala plays better defense, handles the ball better, shoots better, rebounds better, passes better. What does Carmelo do better? He takes more shots -- on a team with the highest pace in the NBA, while the Sixers are in the bottom third of possessions per game. Iguodala plays basketball better.
Iguodala plays better defense, handles the ball better, shoots better, rebounds better, passes better. What does Carmelo do better? He takes more shots -- on a team with the highest pace in the NBA, while the Sixers are in the bottom third of possessions per game. Iguodala plays basketball better.
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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Silk Wilkes
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OmniDEN
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wigglestrue wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=anthoca01&y1=2008&p2=iguodan01&y2=2008
Iguodala plays better defense, handles the ball better, shoots better, rebounds better, passes better. What does Carmelo do better? He takes more shots -- on a team with the highest pace in the NBA, while the Sixers are in the bottom third of possessions per game. Iguodala plays basketball better.
No. And the difference in scoring ability and impact on offense alone makes Carmelo a better player.
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wigglestrue
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MeloTelfair wrote:No. And the difference in scoring ability and impact on offense alone makes Carmelo a better player.
Okay, so Carmelo is as good a shooter maybe better because Carmelo has a better midrange and free throw shot, while Iguodala is only a better 3pt shooter. Fine. And sure let's say Carmelo is as good a rebounder maybe better because Carmelo gobbles up offensive boards better than Iguodala. Anything else that Carmelo does better? You do realize that pace is a major factor in this comparison, right?
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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wigglestrue
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NetsForce wrote:Iguodala has really improved his lateral quickness. If you watch him play on offense he really has a nice first-step now... Defensively he's severely overrated...
I just thought I'd point that out.
Okay. He's a lot better than Melo, though.
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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Hussien Fatal
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hmmm well Melo can score at will but thats about all he does and all he seems to worry about when on the floor, but Iguodala is known for doing all of those little things hes a good defender, hes a hustler, hes a good play maker also, and he has really improved his scvoring ability. But Melo is a star Because of his scoring and that makes him a lot more valueble in peolples eyes,and Iguodala is not, but as overall BASKETBALL PLAYER Iguodala is better.
They call me Hussien Fatal its a two game table im robbin you **** cradle wit a knife in your navel....
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tsherkin
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Tough call. There is no appreciable rebounding advantage between the two, and the comparison that wiggles used doesn't accurately reflect recent trends. Just look at them this year.
Iggy's bumped up his scoring but is both noticeably less efficient (-2.5% TS) AND less prolific (-5.8 ppg) than 'Melo, though he draws fouls at a comparable (and slightly superior) rate.
'Melo's actually outrebounding Iggy by 2 boards a game this year and outrebounded him by 1 full board a game last year. His per-36 rate has shown roughly the same margin and his rebounding rate has been superior in both seasons.
Talk of rebounding is only allowable in 'Melo's 2nd and 3rd season, which match Iggy's first and second seasons... when Karl had Melo leaking a lot more for the break and he wasn't working as hard at hitting the glass. He's clearly the superior rebounder now.
So now scoring and rebounding favor Melo.
Passing favors Iggy statistically but it must be mentioned that 'Melo's passing has noticeably improved since Andre Miller left (even in the presence of Allen Iverson) and likewise Iggy's passing (while still superior statistically) has declined with Miller's arrival.
I'd suggest that while it's true that Iguodala is at least marginally superior to Melo in this category that the presence of Iverson and the greater scoring load he shoulders are more responsible for their statistical gap than any large and significant disparity in passing talent or willingness.
Defensively, while Iggy is marginally overrated, he's still noticeably better than 'Melo. He gets more steals in various ways (not always by gambling) and he posts a superior DRTG AND DWS total (and noticeably so in both cases). 'Melo is slightly above league average in DRTG (e.g. he allows more than league average points per 100 possessions) and Iggy slightly below, while the two exhibit a gap of over 3.5 defensive win shares this year, which is pretty huge.
So really, this comparison becomes a lot foggier when you look at what's happened to 'Melo over the last two seasons. He's become a much better rebounder, he's passing better than he did in the first three seasons of his career and he continues to improve as a scoring weapon. So while Iggy is a better defender and a marginally better passer, one must also recognize that he doesn't have Allen Iverson on his team anymore.
AI's still a really high-usage player and his USG actually underrepresents his possessions because he's a high-volume passer. Iggy hasn't had to contend with AI's presence on his team in basically 2 years and, wonder of wonders, with AI on his team, he didn't get over 3.1 apg (while 'Melo has been over 3.1 both years; 3.8 in his first year with AI playing 50 games on Denver and 3.4 this season).
That's actually a moderately compelling reason to look at 'Melo as at least a comparable passer because while Iggy evidences a higher assist rate, that's a reflection more on his lesser scoring acumen than anything else.
I'd suggest that 'Melo is actually the better player and by a reasonably significant amount, at least until and unless Iggy learns how to be a dangerous scorer. The defensive gap is moderate but insufficient to make Iguodala be a more dangerous overall threat.
Iggy's bumped up his scoring but is both noticeably less efficient (-2.5% TS) AND less prolific (-5.8 ppg) than 'Melo, though he draws fouls at a comparable (and slightly superior) rate.
'Melo's actually outrebounding Iggy by 2 boards a game this year and outrebounded him by 1 full board a game last year. His per-36 rate has shown roughly the same margin and his rebounding rate has been superior in both seasons.
Talk of rebounding is only allowable in 'Melo's 2nd and 3rd season, which match Iggy's first and second seasons... when Karl had Melo leaking a lot more for the break and he wasn't working as hard at hitting the glass. He's clearly the superior rebounder now.
So now scoring and rebounding favor Melo.
Passing favors Iggy statistically but it must be mentioned that 'Melo's passing has noticeably improved since Andre Miller left (even in the presence of Allen Iverson) and likewise Iggy's passing (while still superior statistically) has declined with Miller's arrival.
I'd suggest that while it's true that Iguodala is at least marginally superior to Melo in this category that the presence of Iverson and the greater scoring load he shoulders are more responsible for their statistical gap than any large and significant disparity in passing talent or willingness.
Defensively, while Iggy is marginally overrated, he's still noticeably better than 'Melo. He gets more steals in various ways (not always by gambling) and he posts a superior DRTG AND DWS total (and noticeably so in both cases). 'Melo is slightly above league average in DRTG (e.g. he allows more than league average points per 100 possessions) and Iggy slightly below, while the two exhibit a gap of over 3.5 defensive win shares this year, which is pretty huge.
So really, this comparison becomes a lot foggier when you look at what's happened to 'Melo over the last two seasons. He's become a much better rebounder, he's passing better than he did in the first three seasons of his career and he continues to improve as a scoring weapon. So while Iggy is a better defender and a marginally better passer, one must also recognize that he doesn't have Allen Iverson on his team anymore.
AI's still a really high-usage player and his USG actually underrepresents his possessions because he's a high-volume passer. Iggy hasn't had to contend with AI's presence on his team in basically 2 years and, wonder of wonders, with AI on his team, he didn't get over 3.1 apg (while 'Melo has been over 3.1 both years; 3.8 in his first year with AI playing 50 games on Denver and 3.4 this season).
That's actually a moderately compelling reason to look at 'Melo as at least a comparable passer because while Iggy evidences a higher assist rate, that's a reflection more on his lesser scoring acumen than anything else.
I'd suggest that 'Melo is actually the better player and by a reasonably significant amount, at least until and unless Iggy learns how to be a dangerous scorer. The defensive gap is moderate but insufficient to make Iguodala be a more dangerous overall threat.
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TheKingOfVa360
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