Shaq Trade?

[joe.linnen]

Just asking a simple question so don't get all mad and what not. Say if the Suns lose to the Spurs in the first round what would be the state of the Suns. The Suns traded for Shaq just so they could match the Lakers, Spurs, and Jazz up with the front lines, but with the way things are looking they might get put out in the first round. Would the Shaq trade be looked as a bad trade or what. I just want to see what the Suns fans thinks.

[187_Inc]

He's done what we've wanted him to so far minus the foul trouble in game 1. He put up what 20+ points yesterday with 14 boards and 4 blocks? That's all we can ask from him. He can't contest all the open layups are terrible perimeter D is giving up to Parker and Manu because he would foul out in the 1st half. Good trade, bad execution by our team in the 2nd half when it matters.

[dub81]

Lakers fan here,

but I'm a Shaq supporter. But is it to me, or is Barbossa, and Diaw the softest nba player's in the league?? It seems to me that they do not play the game with the passion like Steve, Shaq, and Amare does?

[The Diesel]

I like the trade and hope it works simply because Shaq is my favorite player and he's done what's been asked of him...BUT, like I said a few weeks ago.

Grant Hill's injury is a huge loss; he never gets the attention that Nash/Shaq/Amare get, but he's just as important to this team now that Marion is gone.

If Hill was healthy, I think the series would be tied 1-1.

I think as long as everyone is healthy next year, a Nash/Bell/Hill/Amare/Shaq line-up will be as good as any team in the NBA.

Remember, this team was playing great basketball towards the end of the regular season.

It seemed they finally got used to playing with each-other after initially struggling after the trade, and I really thought Phoenix had a great chance to go really far in the Playoffs this year until Grant got hurt.

When he got injured, I knew that Phoenix's chances took a huge blow.

Long-term, obviously keeping Marion was the better move because he's much younger, but Shaq has played very well for Phoenix.

He's rebounded the ball great, played good defense, and he's in fantastic shape and helping Amare offensively.

He's done everything asked of him.

In hindsight, it's just so frustrating to be down 2-0 in this series.

- Grant being hurt

- Shaq in foul trouble in Game 1

- Some of Amare's horrible mistakes in Game 1

- Duncan being left wide-open to hit his only 3 pointer of the season in Over-Time to send it to Double OT

- Amare falling apart in the second half of Game 2

- Grant being a non-factor again

- Barbosa shooting 0-7

- Diaw failing to deliver over and over again last night in the 4th quarter

SO FRUSTRATING! This team had two golden chances to win these first two games and they completely fell apart both times.

However, the warning signs were there.

- The collapse against Dallas in the 4th quarter.

- They blew a huge half-time lead to Golden State before coming back to win it in the 4th quarter which knocked Golden State out of Playoff contention.

- They got blown out by Houston after destroying them in Phoenix...they came out with no energy in that game.

What happened in this series so far?

- They fell apart in the second half both times.

- They have blown huge leads both times

The warning signs were there.

[Houston99]

knick fan here but i would like to comment on the suns. i like the suns alot and i hope they win a champioship cuz they deserve on and i live in phoenix also. but the suns will never win a title until they have defense. if you you look at all the teams that have won in the past ten years all of them had defense and i mean all of the teams. i saw them play defense in the last 5 min of the game and they did really good but they dont want to play that defense all the time. thats the number one key the suns are missing. i am going to be really mad if they loose in the first round i really want to see the suns go all the way with shaq.

[The Diesel]

And remember, by the end of the season, this trade seemed like a great move. It seemed like everyone had agreed that it was a smart thing to do.

Why?

- They beat San Antonio twice and Shaq shut down Duncan both times

- They beat Boston in Phoenix

- They destroyed Houston in Phoenix when Houston was fresh off that 22 game winning streak.

- They blew out a very talented Portland team at the Rose Garden

- They blew out the Kings

Everything was clicking until Grant got injured.

It's annoying how these critics and these analysts keep forgetting to mention that he's even on the team and they have severely underestimated his impact on this team.

He was so important because of his defense, rebounding, scoring, passing, and basketball IQ and these critics fail to mention that.

Why?

Because they can't wait to bash this trade; these are the same people who bashed the trade when it first happened, so I guess they see this as vindication and they will keep piling on Shaq and Kerr for this trade.

I really felt this team was going to do great things until Grant's injury...

And I feel horrible for Grant because he deserved to be part of a deep play-off run after what he's been through over the years with all the injuries.

He's also such a great guy off-the-court! I feel so bad for him!

[chrice]

As Diesel said, losing Hill was a huge loss. We lost our only legit swingman. You can argue we wouldn't be in this situation if we had both Marion and Hill, but if we kept Marion, we would have had an even bigger weakness in the interior. Either way, our rotation is short and our bench is shallow, and those are problems neither Shaq nor Marion can mask.

The bigger concern for us right now is bench production. Diaw is starting to remind me of Odom from the past. He has the capability of being an elite scorer, but lacks the aggressiveness and mindset to do so. Instead of attacking, he hesitates and ends of turning the ball over, or taking a near impossible shot to make.

Barbosa needs to have more patience. Whenever he gets the ball, he feels like he's obligated to drive to the basket. He has no game in the mid-court and defenders realize that, and play zone on him. I'm all for him attacking the basket, however, he needs to recognize not in the right position to score and pass out of it. That, or learn to take contact.

I think the Shaq trade worked out very well. He's been a mentor for Amare, and has been trying to lead this team in the right direction. If only the guys in their 20s could give the same kind of effort, I'd be happy. I would make this trade again when it's all said and done.

[djericho]

My love for Shaq started to wane after he got lazy with the Lakers and that kinda turned to hatred w/ the whole Kobe/Shaq feud.

That said, when motivated he can still play. I mean I'm surprised how many lbs he's dropped. He seems motivated, what more next year which he says will be his last. I'll hate to say it, but give the man his last year. He'll be motivated to bring a ring to the Suns. I think only the Lakers will stand in the way of that.

[The Diesel]

I'm surprised there aren't that many replies in this thread...

The criticism keeps coming...

Now Chad Ford is saying he's not sure this team is better with Shaq and he's wavering big time on his prediction that the Suns will win the series.

See guys? I told you it was only a matter of time before these critics showed up again to bash the trade...

It's happening every single day...

So annoying!

[eastsidecrossover]

I don't think the trade is what is hurting the suns, I think it is other elements of this team and staff is what hurts the suns. Also, the spurs still own us physically and mentally. I still think we would be down 2 games even with Marion. I wish we could have kept him, and the suns should have been smart by keeping KT to trade his expiring contract at the deadline, but we have a stupid FO I think.

Anyways, the critics are going to criticize this trade because that is what they are paid to do. It also does not help you are facing the defending champs in the first round. I think it is time to look at moving barbs and Diaw, and maybe a new coach. I think this team has the talent, but not the coaching or mental edge.

[Dry_Fish]

The trade is going to hurt us next 2 years. I believe it was now or never this year.

[The Diesel]

Again, Grant Hill's injury was a huge blow to this team; it's annoying how the media never mentions that and keeps blasting the trade.

To me, it's the same if Ginobili was injured and wasn't playing.

Ginobili is a huge part of San Antonio's success and they have nobody who can replace him.

Same thing with Hill; he was so important to this team and nobody can replace him.

Take Ginobili off the Spurs and they would have no shot of winning this series.

Shaq has done everything that's been asked of him.

[ShowtimeFan]

I think most people like Shaq when he is on their Team and dislike him once he leaves.

As a Laker Fan, I heard that from the Magic fans and I'm sure Suns fans have heard it from Heat fans.

It is a fact that his wieght, age and wear-n-tear on his body has slowed him down.

He may be putting up decent points, his slowness limits his range defensively, results in less rebounds and more fouls (due to reaching).

He will continue to decline, but only time will tell as to how that will effect his play...

[tmac4real]

hey guys I awas having a argument with a friend about this, what was the record prior shaq and post shaq of the suns?

[Cash]

What was the spin when this trade was made? Something about making us a better "playoff team"? Shaq being able to shut down Duncan and/or protect the rim? This trade was made specifically to make the Suns a more conventional team for "playoff-style basketball," which supposedly would lead to more playoff success in general, and specifically against the Spurs. So if we lose in the first round or to the Spurs, it's a failure. If we lose to the Spurs in the first round, it's definitely a failure, and Mike D'Antoni will probably be fired.

[chrice]

I think most people like Shaq when he is on their Team and dislike him once he leaves.

There are probably an equal number of people who blame Shaq as well as an equal number that don't. I hadn't been so excited to watch the Lakers after they got Shaq, since there was showtime. But even I don't blame Shaq at all for leaving the Lakers or the Heat.

There was a lot of drama going on that season when the Pistons routed the Lakers. Shaq as well as other players were questioning where the team was headed. They had a bunch of injuries, and vets close to retirement that tried to ride Shaq/Kobe to a championship. Kobe back then was still fairly selfish with the ball. A lot of people view him as the good guy, but on the other hand, he was actually one of the reasons why Shaq left. Larry Brown even said during the series, Shaq is going to get his points so they were going to focus on Kobe. Even when they took away the easy shots from Kobe, he still dominated the ball anyway.

Heat fans split also, we actually had quite a few wish him luck on the Suns. I don't blame Shaq for leaving the Heat either. He was already being shopped around anyway, and Riley knew they needed an extra piece to get back into the championship hunt. It's pretty obvious that Miami was a tanking team; which is a waste to have Shaq on the roster anways.

[b-ball forever]

What was the spin when this trade was made? Something about making us a better "playoff team"? Shaq being able to shut down Duncan and/or protect the rim? This trade was made specifically to make the Suns a more conventional team for "playoff-style basketball," which supposedly would lead to more playoff success in general, and specifically against the Spurs. So if we lose in the first round or to the Spurs, it's a failure. If we lose to the Spurs in the first round, it's definitely a failure, and Mike D'Antoni will probably be fired.

My thoughts exactly.

If we lose this series, the trade was dumb. If we win then it was OK

[KJ7]

I said it at the time and I'll say it again. We lose then this was a major stuff up. We lose first round and this trade quite frankly was a disaster.

I wouldve been a more OK with it if it occurred at the start of the season but with Shaq out for so long and making such a big change to our playing style what on Earth were they thinking?!! Everyone knew it would take a while for him to get going and that stuffed up our seeding. We then face a tough team and are 2-0 down. Thus far Kerr looks like a fool.

Even if Marion had walked we wouldve had the MLE and TPE to make a run at 2 good players.

Stats don't tell the story. Shaq has been letting us down massively on defense. We traded one problem for another. Now we are a good rebounding team who can't defend the PnR to save ourselves. Like I've said before ... round pegs in square holes is what we have. Shaq brings some good things but I think we should only be using him during certain match-ups. We now have him for a match-up we like and we still aren't winning. What's more we are saddled with a massive contract next year and if Shaq starts pulling the "I'm injured" card Nash can pretty much kiss any hope for a ring goodbye and it's rebuild time in the valley.

While we did well against SanAn it wasn't lost on me that we did very poorly against some other play-off teams. Having to come back against Denver and then losing in their home and then losing to a Yao-less Houston ... you can't say we were playing all that good. We just won the games we were supposed to with the exception of the game in SanAn.

[jaypo]

I said it at the time and I'll say it again. We lose then this was a major stuff up. We lose first round and this trade quite frankly was a disaster.

I wouldve been a more OK with it if it occurred at the start of the season but with Shaq out for so long and making such a big change to our playing style what on Earth were they thinking?!! Everyone knew it would take a while for him to get going and that stuffed up our seeding. We then face a tough team and are 2-0 down. Thus far Kerr looks like a fool.

Even if Marion had walked we wouldve had the MLE and TPE to make a run at 2 good players.

Stats don't tell the story. Shaq has been letting us down massively on defense. We traded one problem for another. Now we are a good rebounding team who can't defend the PnR to save ourselves. Like I've said before ... round pegs in square holes is what we have. Shaq brings some good things but I think we should only be using him during certain match-ups. We now have him for a match-up we like and we still aren't winning. What's more we are saddled with a massive contract next year and if Shaq starts pulling the "I'm injured" card Nash can pretty much kiss any hope for a ring goodbye and it's rebuild time in the valley.

While we did well against SanAn it wasn't lost on me that we did very poorly against some other play-off teams. Having to come back against Denver and then losing in their home and then losing to a Yao-less Houston ... you can't say we were playing all that good. We just won the games we were supposed to with the exception of the game in SanAn.

Letting you down defensively? I guess he should be covering Tony Parker and Manu Ginboli then. They're the ones torching us right now, and last time I checked, Shaq was covering Duncan.

[KJ7]

Don't be so naive. When one of those guys comes off the screen Shaq has to do something (see: ANYTHING) about guarding one of those players.

If you'd been watching us play surely you'd know that.

If he's incapable of applying any sort of pressure or we are unable to adjust to Shaq's inability to guard the PnR then we are toast. You've gotta have *some* versatility guarding players in this league. This isn't the late 80s/early 90s.

And yes his D on Duncan ... the guy who has accumulated 58pts 32rebs in 2 games. Not Shaq's fault he got in foul trouble in the first game I heard you say? Well it kinda is.