Is the Nugget's defense that bad?

[Don Draper]

I've been watching games and looking at some stats and I am not convinced that their defense is as bad as all these commentators are saying it is. I'm pretty sure it is just the pace and the fact that their offense isn't as good as everyone thinks. What do you guys think?

[Mahoney_jr]

Against the Nuggets you can get whereever you want. They don't deny position, they don't deny passes. Sometimes they go for a block or jump into a passing lane. That's bad defense.

[Puertorique]

I think that this team has the ability to play defense if they want to. They make to many gambles on the ball and do not focus on actual team D as much as they should. I think they need a defensive specialist on their team. This is the team that I say would need Artest more then the Suns who I have lobied to get artest. This is a team of good defenders, unfortunately team D and man to man D is not where it should be. K-Mart, Camby and Nene make up a pretty good interior D squad, Melo and AI play the passing lanes, Klienza and Najera are pretty good defenders.

The team focus is mostly on O and they need that one step up player on the perimiter. On top of that I also think they need a vocal leader that's not affraid to get in the superstar's faces.

[Don Draper]

See i disagree and I'll tell you why...

Their defensive rating is a little better than the league average. The lead the NBA and steals AND blocks. The are at league average in terms of FG% and 3FG% and the only thing they do wrong as a defense is give up offensive rebounding.

But the main thing to me is the Nuggets dont run an offense. They just run down and shoot the first available shot. Giving teams more opporunities to score. They average the most possessions per game so of course opposing teams will have just as many opportunities to score.

I don't like the the sportwriters and commentors calling this a bad defensive team and very good offensive team. To me the numbers indicate they are just about average at both.

Dont they have access to the same stats we do? I don't understand.

[lukeridenour]

in game one i saw the nuggets double team vlad man 5 times leading to open 3s or even worst open dunks. this scenario was probably isolated to just the first half too. their defense is atrocious.

[Don Draper]

in game one i saw the nuggets double team vlad man 5 times leading to open 3s or even worst open dunks. this scenario was probably isolated to just the first half too. their defense is atrocious.

But why doesn't it show up in stats? The Lakers are one of the best offensive teams in the NBA. Couldn't it be a great offense making an average defense look bad?

[lukeridenour]

See i disagree and I'll tell you why...

Their defensive rating is a little better than the league average. The lead the NBA and steals AND blocks. The are at league average in terms of FG% and 3FG% and the only thing they do wrong as a defense is give up offensive rebounding.

But the main thing to me is the Nuggets dont run an offense. They just run down and shoot the first available shot. Giving teams more opporunities to score. They average the most possessions per game so of course opposing teams will have just as many opportunities to score.

I don't like the the sportwriters and commentors calling this a bad defensive team and very good offensive team. To me the numbers indicate they are just about average at both.

Dont they have access to the same stats we do? I don't understand.

i think sometimes stats are overrated tho, cause who here at realgm actually believes camby is a better defender than duncan?

it goes both ways, if the nuggets are averaging the most possessions, then is it possible that theyre blks and stl numbers are inflated?

[Duiz]

Look at the defensive efficiency per 100 posessions man, that is the best stat that cuts through all the bullcrap and tells you plain simple how good or bad they are at defense.

As of right now in the playoffs they rating dead last with 120.4 points allowed per 100 posessions. Compare that to the Sixers who allow 98.5 points allowed per 100 posession.

In the regular season they allow 103.2 points per 100 possesions which ranks 13th on the league. So they aren't as bad as the Pacers or Raptors.

But Houston allows 98.8 which is the second lowest, and it is quite a significant difference.

[lukeridenour]

-= original quote snipped =-



But why doesn't it show up in stats? The Lakers are one of the best offensive teams in the NBA. Couldn't it be a great offense making an average defense look bad?

it did show up in the stats, the stat of lakers being up 128-114 at the end of game 1.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Announcers usually are not enough in the numbers to understand that it's not about total points but points per possession.
Over the RS, Denver had the 9th best defence in the NBA according to my numbers, what they do best is avoiding sending people to the FT line and forcing TOs.

That's an average over the RS, though, it doesn't mean a good passing team like the Lakers can't kill them.

They had a better defence than offense over the last few years, though.

[Don Draper]

Garnett;s defensive rating is a 94
Duncan's defensive rating is a 97
Camby's defensive rating is a 98

Pretty accurate to me.

[Don Draper]

Announcers usually are not enough in the numbers to understand that it's not about total points but points per possession.
Over the RS, Denver had the 9th best defence in the NBA according to my numbers, what they do best is avoiding sending people to the FT line and forcing TOs.

That's an average over the RS, though, it doesn't mean a good passing team like the Lakers can't kill them.

They had a better defence than offense over the last few years, though.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. The only thing they arent that good at is offensive rebounding apart from that I dont see how people can call them the worst defensive team in the NBA. They play at the fastest pace in the NBA so of course their PPG will be high but PPG isnt an indicator of how good a defense is.

[Duiz]

I don't believe they are 9th. They are somewhere in the middle, for sure they aren't as bad as painted by the announcers, which is the great testament of Camby and Martin.

But they really aren't as bad as the Milwaukee for example.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... onType%3d2

[Ballings7]

The Nuggets defensive rank hasn't credibly reflected their play.

At times, certain games over the years, they have played solid, traditional defense, but that amount of times, is so much less compared to the over time situation of their defense displayed. So those occasions of the effective fashion, are insignificant in the long run.

Denver can't keep playing as they've been in order to take the next step as a team. Their style lacks diversity offensively, in terms of ways to score, and the typical way of playing defense. Meaning, of course, staying with your man, contesting shots, rotating, and rebounding. They don't defend in the legitimate way as a regularity. George Karl has even said earlier this season, they're "schizophrenic defensively". Obviously that doesn't mean forcing TOs, gambling for steals/blocks, because that's their strength and fuels one of their few ways to score. The problems are the reliance is too much on doing that, and lack discipline in going for them. When you don't get the steal or block, your defense is either at a disadvantage or breaks down and something positive happens for the opponent.

They need to implement the main way of playing defense, from a mentality and player stand-point.

[Don Draper]

Look at the defensive efficiency per 100 posessions man, that is the best stat that cuts through all the bullcrap and tells you plain simple how good or bad they are at defense.

As of right now in the playoffs they rating dead last with 120.4 points allowed per 100 posessions. Compare that to the Sixers who allow 98.5 points allowed per 100 posession.

In the regular season they allow 103.2 points per 100 possesions which ranks 13th on the league. So they aren't as bad as the Pacers or Raptors.

But Houston allows 98.8 which is the second lowest, and it is quite a significant difference.

I knew what the ratings are I just wanted to see if anyone had and reasons refute it (I know alot of people who dont trust the ratings even though Dean Oliver did a perfect job explaining it in his book). I didnt know however that there playoff numbers were that bad, I thought it was more of their offense. Did you compute the playoff numbers yourself or is it available somewhere?

[Don Draper]

The Nuggets defensive rank hasn't credibly reflected their play.

At times, certain games over the years, they have played solid, traditional defense, but that amount of times, is so much less compared to the over time situation of their defense displayed. So those occasions of the effective fashion, are insignificant in the long run.

Denver can't keep playing as they've been in order to take the next step as a team. Their style lacks diversity offensively, in terms of ways to score, and the typical way of playing defense. Meaning, of course, staying with your man, contesting shots, rotating, and rebounding. They don't defend in the legitimate way as a regularity. George Karl has even said earlier this season, they're "schizophrenic defensively". Obviously that doesn't mean forcing TOs, gambling for steals/blocks, because that's their strength and fuels one of their few ways to score. The problems are the reliance is too much on doing that, and lack discipline in going for them. When you don't get the steal or block, your defense is either at a disadvantage or breaks down and something positive happens for the opponent.

They need to implement the main way of playing defense, from a mentality and player stand-point.

I agree. I think the needed the Artest trade. They do not have a perimeter defenders. It is sad when the PF has to guard 1 thru 5. If they dont pick up a guy committed to defense they will be the same team next year.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The Nuggets defensive rank hasn't credibly reflected their play.

in the playoffs? for sure, but it doesn't mean you can call them a bad defensive team.
It could be the Lakers' offense being to good or just having been not focused enough in the last few games.

In the RS the Nuggets were:
14th in opp eFG% (.499 vs .497 league average)
22nd in defensive rebounding (.721 vs .733 league average)
7th in FTA allowed per 100 poss (10.6 vs 11.6 league average)
6th in forced TO per 100 poss (15.2 vs 14.3 league average)
so
9th in defensive rating (93.6 vs 94.9 league average)

I want to add just a note: this is a team that won 50 games in a very loaded conference, to achieve that with a lousy defense they'd have needed a seriously dominant offense ala Phoenix or Utah, and that's not the case.

[Duiz]

obinna. I think you are thinking about PER and I am not talking about that. Such is for personal performances.

[The Rebel]

-= original quote snipped =-



I agree. I think the needed the Artest trade. They do not have a perimeter defenders. It is sad when the PF has to guard 1 thru 5. If they dont pick up a guy committed to defense they will be the same team next year.

As you say the Nuggets defense is right about average, there offense is also right about average. The problem is that picking up Artest improves their defense a little, but adds another ball stopper on offense, and adds more ego and problems in the lockerroom. I do not see Artest as being much of a help on the Nuggets.

The team just needs to go back to playing as a team, they have spurts where they do it and look as good as anybody in the league, however many of them are too selfish for it to last, and it may be too late in this season for somebody to convince them.

[Blame Rasho]

I wonder how they would do out east...

They are ok, I don't think they suck but when it comes to facing elite team they go thru spells where they can't get stops.

Last year they defended the Spurs quite well...

I think you have to credit the efficient offense of the Lakers before you bash the Nuggets D.