Phoenix is against the wall now down 0-3 and I've heard all the scuttle about their coach not playing his bench enough. Sounds familiar. While I'm not willing to say that not playing their current bench is the reason they are getting handled by the Spurs, I do think their lack of situational depth is why they can't match San Antonio. Who's to blame for this? Look no further than ownership.
Phoenix has been selling off 1st round picks for the last several years to stay under the cap under the misguided theory that the lower 1st rounder wouldn't help them win right now.
Who have they disgarded?
Luol Deng, Nate Robinson, Rajon Rondo, Sergio Rodriguez, and Rudy Fernandez
I'm not sure if they would have had all of those picks. I suspect that the Rudy Fernandez pick was acquired via the trade of the Rondo pick. As such I'll leave him out. Actually, just taking Deng and Rondo. They would be making 3.3M and 1.2M respectively. To put that in perspective Deng would cost 1/3 of the 9M they paid Diaw this year (less than they were paying Marcus Banks before trading him to Miami) and Rondo would be making the same as they paid Eric Piatkowski to sit the bench. Rondo would give them a credible backup PG and could provide a defender for the fast PGs of the West like Tony Parker and Chris Paul. Deng would give them swingman depth so that they aren't so thin when Grant Hill's injuries are acting up.
In addition to the past picks they've dealt they sent out this year's late first and the 2010 first to Seattle for them to take Kurt Thomas off their hands. The same Kurt Thomas defending them in a Spurs uniform. Given up on him let them to need to acquire a inside defensive presence in the form of Shaq.
I'm just saying as rumors fly about firing D'Antoni and blaming him for his short rotation that the team that pinched too many pennies is getting what they paid for. Conversely, I feel D'Antoni should get blame for running offense through Diaw in crunch because of a height advantage, but that's another post for another time.
As for our short bench, our ownership/GM failed to fill out the roster after making a 4 for 1 deal for Bibby. Not that our coach would have used the players, but it did feel like we skimped. Not to defend Woodson but a couple years of a team staying under the cap limit in a system designed that almost every team exceeds the cap doesn't really allow for the development of a deep quality bench. BK's stubborn refusals to actually complete a roster with any skill/position diversity also hurts.
I guess the point of this post was to say to say to Suns and Hawks fans alike that short rotations and 1st round sweeps are more than just idiotic coaching decisions. GM/Ownership decisions over years pave the road to the current situation. Definitely call the coaches on they're own screw ups, but don't let the other guilty parties off light or the next coach won't reach the promise land either.
OT - Phoenix Woes
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OT - Phoenix Woes
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evildallas
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LL Cool Scott
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Couldn't agree more. That franchise has been on a steady decline since Colangelo left. If I was a fan of theirs, I would be borderline homicidal towards their owners. They absolutely gave away a shot at a dynasty because they were too cheap to pay the luxury tax. It's tough to see guys like Nash, D'Antoni, Stoudemire, and the Big Aristotle get blamed for what is clearly the fault of cheap ownership.
Regarding the Hawks - I try not to even think about our ownership situation, because it's far too depressing. Hard to imagine this team ever doing anything special when our franchise is rotten from top to bottom...
Regarding the Hawks - I try not to even think about our ownership situation, because it's far too depressing. Hard to imagine this team ever doing anything special when our franchise is rotten from top to bottom...
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JoshB914
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There's nothing worse than watching a team lose simply do to a lack of toughness, but we've become accustomed to it with the Suns.
Phoenix have no idea what they're doing. Last off season it was obvious. They waited too long to deal Marion waiting for the perfect deal, then they dealt him for Shaq in a panic move that ruined the identity of their team. They also could have had KG but refused to deal Amare to us for some ridiculous reason last year on Draft Day. Now they're stuck with the same problem that they always are, they can't matchup with SAS. They deserve everything right now, they have brought it on themselves.
At least we won't hear the fans cry about Stern screwing them over again. SAS has just blown them away.
Phoenix have no idea what they're doing. Last off season it was obvious. They waited too long to deal Marion waiting for the perfect deal, then they dealt him for Shaq in a panic move that ruined the identity of their team. They also could have had KG but refused to deal Amare to us for some ridiculous reason last year on Draft Day. Now they're stuck with the same problem that they always are, they can't matchup with SAS. They deserve everything right now, they have brought it on themselves.
At least we won't hear the fans cry about Stern screwing them over again. SAS has just blown them away.
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Rip2137
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Wow. You guys are quite ridiuclous in here.
the spurs are winning games becaue they are stopping the offense by running Hack A Shaq. That is DEFINATELY why they won game one and arguably why they were able to maintain their lead in game 3. Even in game 2 when Shaq was hitting their freethrows, it was just killing their pace. It a smart, cheap, but smart stragedy that is working. It also helps that Amare is the worse defender this side of Zaza when it comes to big men in this league.
Once again, even matched teams slugging it out. This series will probably be over in 6...I wouldn't be shocked if it went 7 because the Spurs and the Suns are evenly matched in ever which way. The Suns are being blown away? Really? 2 of the first three games have been close, with one ending with a layup at the buzzer.
Yes, the managements cheapness has annoyed me to no end. But lets not get all silly about them losing a series.
And seriously, the spurs and their "defense first" crap is just silly. If they are playing great defense then the Suns wouldnt have been close in game one and two. The Spurs have a great offense and that is what is winning these games.
the spurs are winning games becaue they are stopping the offense by running Hack A Shaq. That is DEFINATELY why they won game one and arguably why they were able to maintain their lead in game 3. Even in game 2 when Shaq was hitting their freethrows, it was just killing their pace. It a smart, cheap, but smart stragedy that is working. It also helps that Amare is the worse defender this side of Zaza when it comes to big men in this league.
Once again, even matched teams slugging it out. This series will probably be over in 6...I wouldn't be shocked if it went 7 because the Spurs and the Suns are evenly matched in ever which way. The Suns are being blown away? Really? 2 of the first three games have been close, with one ending with a layup at the buzzer.
Yes, the managements cheapness has annoyed me to no end. But lets not get all silly about them losing a series.
And seriously, the spurs and their "defense first" crap is just silly. If they are playing great defense then the Suns wouldnt have been close in game one and two. The Spurs have a great offense and that is what is winning these games.
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HoopsGuru25
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LMAO@Phoenix trying to "rebuild". They should have done that before they got a washed up center making $40 million the next two years. It would be much easier to rebuild if they didn't give away Luol Deng, Rajon,Rondo,James Jones, and two first round draft picks along with Kurt Thomas. If the Hawks signed Joe to an offer sheet chances are they would have given him up too. Like LL said...Phoenix had a GREAT chance to win multiple championships and blew it by virtually handing players and draft picks away for money.
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Rip2137
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JoshB914 wrote:If the Suns are losing because a team is intentionally fouling their center then they aren't that good in the first place.
Dude, thats just ridiculously silly. They lost game one by 2 points. The only way the Spurs got back in that game was because Shaq couldn't buy a freethrow.
They just lost game 2, and when they were on a run and cut the lead to 6 last game, they went back to Shaq and they kept them at bay using the same method.
IF you are arguing that Hack-a-Shaq has no effect on games, then why would anyone do it?
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HoopsGuru25
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i agree with Rip but the Suns are just worse than the Spurs and have a new excuse every year. Last year it was the Amare/Diaw suspension but somehow they leave out that they blew a 20 point lead in that game. Pop is just a great coach...he knows that if you send Shaq to the line the chances are that he's going to shoot 50 % and giving up 1 point per possession is great defense. If Shaq was even a below average free throw shooter(let's say 65%)the Suns would actually benefit from the Hack-a-Shaq.
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JoshB914
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The Suns have been losing close games in the playoffs to the Spurs for years. It's not just tough losses, they are losing because their team is not structured correctly to beat SAS.
I'm not arguing the Hack-a-Shaq has no effect, I'm just saying if that is the main reason Phx is losing then they are even weaker mentally than I thought.
They did it to Shaq in L.A. too. But that team was built much better and they didn't let it cost them games.
I'm not arguing the Hack-a-Shaq has no effect, I'm just saying if that is the main reason Phx is losing then they are even weaker mentally than I thought.
They did it to Shaq in L.A. too. But that team was built much better and they didn't let it cost them games.
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Rip2137
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The "Suns has an excuse" thing is just kinda silly though.
Joe Johnson really did break his face the first year. He was one of the Suns big three. I mean, if Manu Ginobli went down right now and the Suns won this series, would you really be able to say "Well, the Suns are just a better team and the Spurs are making excuses".
Amare really did blow out his knee the next year. Then Kurt Thomas went down. And they still were on their way to beating Dallas until Raja Bell went down. They really did lose three starters that year. I don't see how you can say "They just weren't good enough and are making excuses" when I have a feeling that if you take 3 starters off any playoff team, including the leading scorer and best perimeter defender and 3 point threat, that you are going to lose the series.
There really was a NBA offical that is going to be sent to prison for fixing the outcome of NBA games in the game where before any of this was known, colomnist all over the country wrote about the kooky calls in that game. That happened. The suspensions, while it was totally Amare and Diaws fault, and no one elses, a rule is a rule, it still effected the outcome of the series. to pretend otherwise is silly.
I personaly thought the suns gave up on their team to fast in Shipping Marion. this would have been the first year they could have gone at them full strength with that team, but they chose to break it up.
Right now, they are simply losing to a team that the CAN beat. It should be 2-2 right now if not for one guy not being able to make freethrows.
I don't see how you can call it weak mentally when they are going blow for blow with the other team. San Antonio won game one because they had the ball last, simple as that(and saying Phoenix blew a lead, tye were up 16 in the first, they started Hack a Shaq and got it down to 11 JUST from the Hack a Shaq. In the second half they got it down from 9 to 4 JUST using the Hack a Shaq. that "blown" lead was Shaq not hitting freethrows.)
No they haven't won a championship. But its just silly to say "Its because they are weak mentally and they just aren't that good". Its just play dumb. It requires you to ignore MAJOR injuries on a team that utilizes a short bench. For the past 4 season, if you realistically didn't have them as one of the teams that could win the championship, you were lying to yourself. 2 western conference finals, one semi and whatever happens this year is what they have to show for it. Thats nothing to thumb your nose at.
Joe Johnson really did break his face the first year. He was one of the Suns big three. I mean, if Manu Ginobli went down right now and the Suns won this series, would you really be able to say "Well, the Suns are just a better team and the Spurs are making excuses".
Amare really did blow out his knee the next year. Then Kurt Thomas went down. And they still were on their way to beating Dallas until Raja Bell went down. They really did lose three starters that year. I don't see how you can say "They just weren't good enough and are making excuses" when I have a feeling that if you take 3 starters off any playoff team, including the leading scorer and best perimeter defender and 3 point threat, that you are going to lose the series.
There really was a NBA offical that is going to be sent to prison for fixing the outcome of NBA games in the game where before any of this was known, colomnist all over the country wrote about the kooky calls in that game. That happened. The suspensions, while it was totally Amare and Diaws fault, and no one elses, a rule is a rule, it still effected the outcome of the series. to pretend otherwise is silly.
I personaly thought the suns gave up on their team to fast in Shipping Marion. this would have been the first year they could have gone at them full strength with that team, but they chose to break it up.
Right now, they are simply losing to a team that the CAN beat. It should be 2-2 right now if not for one guy not being able to make freethrows.
I don't see how you can call it weak mentally when they are going blow for blow with the other team. San Antonio won game one because they had the ball last, simple as that(and saying Phoenix blew a lead, tye were up 16 in the first, they started Hack a Shaq and got it down to 11 JUST from the Hack a Shaq. In the second half they got it down from 9 to 4 JUST using the Hack a Shaq. that "blown" lead was Shaq not hitting freethrows.)
No they haven't won a championship. But its just silly to say "Its because they are weak mentally and they just aren't that good". Its just play dumb. It requires you to ignore MAJOR injuries on a team that utilizes a short bench. For the past 4 season, if you realistically didn't have them as one of the teams that could win the championship, you were lying to yourself. 2 western conference finals, one semi and whatever happens this year is what they have to show for it. Thats nothing to thumb your nose at.
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JoshB914
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I'm not ignoring what the Suns have had to overcome. But when there is an excuse for losing to the Spurs every year it gets old.
This season there was no excuses whatsoever and the Suns have been pretty much dominated. Of course they can beat the Spurs, but they don't and they NEVER HAVE in a series. The fact that they continue to lose to a team that they could have beaten every year speaks volumes about the gap in toughness between the two teams.
This season there was no excuses whatsoever and the Suns have been pretty much dominated. Of course they can beat the Spurs, but they don't and they NEVER HAVE in a series. The fact that they continue to lose to a team that they could have beaten every year speaks volumes about the gap in toughness between the two teams.