Raptors Fan Here..

[ICMTM]

I personally think Artest for any Raptor combo minus Chris Bosh is not a good deal.

For those who don't like Ron Artest that's not a good reason to trade him. With arguments like "his behavior has been better, but he's still the same person" it's a shame. How in the same sentence can you say his behavior is better, but he's never going to change?

I understand that Artest may or may not be your favorite player but c'mon now people. You want the most value possible in a trade. Are Ford or Calderon much better (if at all) than Beno? I don't think Beno wants to go anywhere so why are we going to entertain trading our most versatile player for a guy(s) that talent wise are similar to guys we can obtain for cash that play the same spot?

Whether you like Ron or not should cloud good judgement, and I'm sorry but trading for either of the Raps PG's put us further back in the West than holding onto Ron.

[sackings916]

I personally think Artest for any Raptor combo minus Chris Bosh is not a good deal.

For those who don't like Ron Artest that's not a good reason to trade him. With arguments like "his behavior has been better, but he's still the same person" it's a shame. How in the same sentence can you say his behavior is better, but he's never going to change?

I understand that Artest may or may not be your favorite player but c'mon now people. You want the most value possible in a trade. Are Ford or Calderon much better (if at all) than Beno? I don't think Beno wants to go anywhere so why are we going to entertain trading our most versatile player for a guy(s) that talent wise are similar to guys we can obtain for cash that play the same spot?

Whether you like Ron or not should cloud good judgement, and I'm sorry but trading for either of the Raps PG's put us further back in the West than holding onto Ron.

I am against Artest for Ford, but I think Artest for Calderon would greatly benefit us. Calderon is a tier above Beno IMO, he's more efficient scoring wise and has the playmaking ability Beno does not have. Add to that his ridiculous AST/TO ratio I think he's a great fit for this team. He cant defend, but what other options do the Kings have to get a top 10 PG?

[Wolfay]

I'm with ICMTM.

Artest>Raptors (except maybe Bosh, but I would still have to think about it).

Some of you are so blinded by your hatred of Artest.

[pillwenney]

I personally think Artest for any Raptor combo minus Chris Bosh is not a good deal.

For those who don't like Ron Artest that's not a good reason to trade him. With arguments like "his behavior has been better, but he's still the same person" it's a shame. How in the same sentence can you say his behavior is better, but he's never going to change?

I understand that Artest may or may not be your favorite player but c'mon now people. You want the most value possible in a trade. Are Ford or Calderon much better (if at all) than Beno? I don't think Beno wants to go anywhere so why are we going to entertain trading our most versatile player for a guy(s) that talent wise are similar to guys we can obtain for cash that play the same spot?

Whether you like Ron or not should cloud good judgement, and I'm sorry but trading for either of the Raps PG's put us further back in the West than holding onto Ron.

Yes, yes they are. Especially Calderon. Beno is probably a bit of a better defender than Calderon, and might be a better scorer, but Calderon is an infinitely better passer and playmaker. He's at least a whole step above Beno.

[KF10]

Yeah, I would do rpa's proposed deal. (Artest/Udrih For Calderon/Filler?) Calderon's playmaking and passing abilities would do wonders for this team. IIRC the Kings were dead last in terms of Assist/Turnover ratio...

[KingInExile]

I'm with ICMTM.

Artest>Raptors (except maybe Bosh, but I would still have to think about it).

Some of you are so blinded by your hatred of Artest.

That's basically what I was getting at in my post on page 1. And your second comment is what I have been arguing for the last several weeks.

[jfucsd10]

I still think the more realistic option is Ford & 17th for Artest. The injury concerns have been documented, but to get a playmaker like Ford.

Ford
Martin
Salmons
12th and 17th
Hawes

Thats our future ... land one big (arthur) and best player avaivable.


This is the sort of rebuild we will need ... planning for the future.

[Smills91]

I still think the more realistic option is Ford & 17th for Artest. The injury concerns have been documented, but to get a playmaker like Ford.

Ford
Martin
Salmons
12th and 17th
Hawes

Thats our future ... land one big (arthur) and best player avaivable.


This is the sort of rebuild we will need ... planning for the future.

No it's not, it's not realistic at all. Why? because 1) Ron has to OPT IN before the draft, 2) Ford has BYC status which can be managed around but mucks things up royally 3) Petrie likes guys who can shoot - hence, Calderon as a 'Petrie' guy,.

IMO the MOST REALISTIC deal is:
Ron Artest for SnT of Jose Calderon/2009 lotto protected first

I see that as a potential deal sometime in July - August.

[pillwenney]

I think it's safe to say that my approval of trading Calderon for Ron has nothing to do with a hatred for Ron, but rather a combination of recognizing team needs and a great respect for Calderon's game.

[KF10]

I absolutely HATE seeing Artest go but Calderon just fill a need for this team that we lacked for a long time. A pure PG.

[rpa]

What about a 3-way trade with Portland:

Kings out: Artest, Kenny Thomas
Kings in: Lafrentz, #13, one of Portland's PG prospects (Jack, Rudy Fernandez, maybe Sergio Rodriguez)

Raps out: TJ Ford, Expiring contracts
Raps in: Artest, Kenny Thomas

Portland out: Lafrentz, #13, one PG prospect
Portland in: Ford (+ salary filler)

Kings: Dump Kenny's deal, get another pick, and get a mediocre prospect
Raps: Get Artest for the cost of Ford + 1 extra year of useless salary
Blazers: Get their PG (who's still only 25) for expiring contracts, a pick, and one of their many PG prospects.

You may think the Kings make out like bandits but Portland needs to unload 1 of those guys. They add Ford and they'd suddenly have FIVE PGs on the roster for next season: Ford, Blake, Jack, Sergio, Rudy.

[sackings916]

Here's one I came up with.

Kings trade:
Ron Artest
Mikke Moore

Raptors trade:
Jose Calderon(SnT 6 yr/48 mil range)
Garbajosa
Joey Graham

Kings lineup
Miller/Hawes
Hawes/Williams/SAR
Salmons/Garcia
Martin/Garcia
Calderon/Douby

Raptors lineup
Nesterovic/Moore
Bosh/Bargani
Artest/Moon
Parker/Kapono
Ford/(MLE on Beno Udrih?)


Why for Toronto:
Get their 2nd star to pair with Bosh. Artest gives them a go to guy other than Bosh, a post presence,another 3 point shooter and lockdown wing defender.Add 2 experienced veterans who provide toughness,intensity and leadership.

Why for Sacramento:
Continue the rebuild and get their starting PG in Calderon. Calderon gives the Kings a pass first,playmaking PG who shoots good %s across the board.

[Crimson King]

-= original quote snipped =-


IMO the MOST REALISTIC deal is:
Ron Artest for SnT of Jose Calderon/2009 lotto protected first

I see that as a potential deal sometime in July - August.

I think if Calderon resigns, he's a BYC player (like Nocioni past offseason), so this trade doesn't work.

[ICMTM]

Yes, yes they are. Especially Calderon. Beno is probably a bit of a better defender than Calderon, and might be a better scorer, but Calderon is an infinitely better passer and playmaker. He's at least a whole step above Beno.

Your own argument doesn't sound too convincing...

I'll agree Calderon is better, but a whole step above Udrih is a stretch IMO.

[pillwenney]

-= original quote snipped =-



Your own argument doesn't sound too convincing...

I'll agree Calderon is better, but a whole step above Udrih is a stretch IMO.

Beno's assist/turnover ratio is a very mediocre 1.9/1. That is good for 59th in the league. Calderon's is an unheard of 5.4/1, which is not only good for 1st in the league, but 1st by a very wide margin. Is that convincing enough?

It's like comparing Olajuwon to Mutombo. Their similar in many aspects of their game. Hakeem is just better offensively.

[Wolfay]

Calderon can't defend a lamp.

[sackings916]

-= original quote snipped =-



Your own argument doesn't sound too convincing...

I'll agree Calderon is better, but a whole step above Udrih is a stretch IMO.

Calderon is capable of doing everything Beno does, but Beno cant create and make plays for others like Calderon. Calderon is a top 10 PG, Beno top 20-25..Calderon's a tier or 2 above Beno.

[pillwenney]

Calderon can't defend a lamp.

He's not that bad. I'd say he's at least better than Nash in that respect. But that is a weakness for him, and that would be my main concern with him. But the rest of his game is just too tempting.

[sackings916]

Calderon's biggest weakness is his D, but what PGs are shutting guards down? And what other options do the Kings really have? Beno cant keep quick guards in front of him either, and if the Kings were to get a PG in the draft like Augustin,Bayless or even Rose I think they'd get abused by the top PGs just as bad as Calderon would. Interior defense and rebounding along with team defense are much more important than your PGs man defense. While it is a bonus for your PG to defend like a Rondo, I think your perimeter players getting beat off the dribble is inevitable, its what happens when they get beat that determines how good a teams defense is.

[thebigguy]

As a Toronto Fan, this has been very enlightening. While the Raptors could use the toughness of Artest, I personally don