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Post#41 » by miller31time » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:46 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:miller, I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but how many rebounds as a SF do you think Pecherov could grab?

Pecherov, Blatche, and Haywood as a frontcourt doesn't get outrebounded.

My only point is EJ let this team get outrebounded by 20 at home, and Caron played 45:30 min and only had 2 rebounds.

Pecherov ain't the answer, but I'd rather have a 7 footer jacking shots than guys who won't rebound. Songaila, Butler, Arenas all had 2 rebounds.

It's not EJ that didn't rebound, but his small lineups didn't help.


With that lineup, we'd get torched so horribly on defense that there wouldn't be any rebounds to grab. Then, on offense, we'd be slow and unable to get off a good shot.
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Post#42 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:49 pm

Defense couldn't be much worse than the one that gave up 13 threes.

We don't need to argue, miller. Pech was the wrong name to bring up.

It's obvious we're both pissed off at the Wizards and EJ for laying an egg today.

Sorry, man. I'm gonna log off til I feel better.
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Post#43 » by closg00 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:50 pm

No excuse for D-Mac not being out there. I wonder if his assistance made the obvious suggestion?
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Post#44 » by closg00 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:51 pm

EJ never should have put poor Gil in the position he was in at the end of the game.
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Post#45 » by miller31time » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:54 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Defense couldn't be much worse than the one that gave up 13 threes.

We don't need to argue, miller. Pech was the wrong name to bring up.

It's obvious we're both pissed off at the Wizards and EJ for laying an egg today.

Sorry, man. I'm gonna log off til I feel better.


Lol, no need CCJ. I'm a little edgy right now, just because I'm so angry. But you know I respect your opinion. I just disagree with this one. No biggie.

:)
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Post#46 » by Dat2U » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:02 pm

Fire EJ. Hire Laimbeer and let him bring on Aguirre. Retain Hopla.

Trade/dump Songaila & Daniels. Throw in Pech & Memphis' 1st rounder if it helps. An expiring contract would be ideal, if not so be it, go after an overpaid athletic rotation player. Hughes anyone?

Were not going to be able to trade Etan so just accept it. He's our backup C next year.

If Nick Young can get you a Kyle Lowry, do it.

Draft best available player. Arthur, Hibbert or Batum.

I'd consider trading Caron & Andray if it got us a big time player. I don't trust Caron to stay healthy...I'm wondering if we should capitalize on his value now while its at its highest point coming off of two straight all-star seasons.

Resign Jamison to around $10 mil per. Advise Gil to not opt out, if he does, offer him $11-12 mil per to start and let the market dictate what he gets. He won't get anything better than that. If he wants long term security & and is serious about allowing the team to acquire enough pieces to make a serious run, he'll eventually take it.
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Post#47 » by miller31time » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:04 pm

Dat2U wrote:Fire EJ. Hire Laimbeer and let him bring on Aguirre. Retain Hopla.

Trade/dump Songaila & Daniels. Throw in Pech & Memphis' 1st rounder if it helps. An expiring contract would be ideal, if not so be it, go after an overpaid athletic rotation player. Hughes anyone?

Were not going to be able to trade Etan so just accept it. He's our backup C next year.

If Nick Young can get you a Kyle Lowry, do it.

Draft best available player. Arthur, Hibbert or Batum.

I'd consider trading Caron & Andray if it got us a big time player. I don't trust Caron to stay healthy...I'm wondering if we should capitalize on his value now while its at its highest point coming off of two straight all-star seasons.

Resign Jamison to around $10 mil per. Advise Gil to not opt out, if he does, offer him $11-12 mil per to start and let the market dictate what he gets. He won't get anything better than that. If he wants long term security & and is serious about allowing the team to acquire enough pieces to make a serious run, he'll eventually take it.


Here's the great thing, Dat. By getting a new coach, Etan Thomas becomes a valuable cog to this team. It's just that we don't trust EJ to give Brendan the correct amount of minutes, but a new coach would see how much better Haywood is and give him minutes accordingly.

Etan's a good player and an excellent backup center, so long as that's ALL he is.
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Post#48 » by Bickerstaff » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:06 pm

Doclinkin has been the voice of reason in this thread. Having Arenas and Butler healthy (hopefully) will help the team far more than any combination of desperation trades, and hopefully another year of NBA experience under their belts will mean this year's rookies will be able to contribute during next year's playoffs.

The guy they really need to have come around, though, is Blatche. When he is focused and energetic, he solves so many of this team's problems.

As for Eddie Jordan... I don't know. The players seem to love him, which should not be discounted. That's a rare thing. I think the question that needs to be addressed is whether he's improved over the years as a head coach. I am a fan of his personality, but I don't know enough about the Xs and Os to have a real opinion of his coaching ability.

At the same time, I think it's pretty knee-jerk to want to hire someone like Tom Thibodeau. Not that I think he'd be bad (I really have no idea how he'd be), but the Wizards are built to score points. Hiring a defensive specialist indicates that the team is now supposed to make a 180 degree turn in its approach to basketball, which seems like an overreaction given the talent on the roster. These last couple seasons have been disappointing, but it's bound to go that way without your best 2 players. Chin up, Wizards fans. There is plenty of reason to be optimistic.
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Post#49 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:11 pm

miller31time wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Lol, no need CCJ. I'm a little edgy right now, just because I'm so angry. But you know I respect your opinion. I just disagree with this one. No biggie.

:)


Same here, man. We all need a hug.

EDIT - TMI :rofl:

Damned Wizards. This team's so depressing I'm gonna have to increase some meds, man.
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Post#50 » by Severn Hoos » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:33 pm

doclinkin wrote:But if EG were hiring a coach other than Eddie, I expect actually JVG would be one of the first phone calls he'd make. Then he'd definitely re-structure the team in a defensive mode and build around Brendan Haywood as the centerpiece. Woo. Fun. Yay.


Yeah, that would suck - watching our boring team score 85 points per game in the Conference Finals.

I've been back and forth about a hundred times on whether EJ should be back or not.

At the end of last season - with the benching of BTH and the horrific team defense - I was thoroughly frustrated wit hEddie and thought the team would be better off with another cocah. But, given the injury issues, etc., I fully understood the decidion to give him another year.

If I were EG, I would have told Eddie that he had to get to the ECF in order to keep his job. Let him know that he HAD to improve the defense, and that if they didn't improve (especially if he kept up his spat with Brendan and refused to play his best defender), his services would not be needed.

Fortunately, the Wiz started the season well (after the first 5 games). They were playing pretty good defense, and were doing it all without their best player. Maybe EJ had turned the corner. I really hoped that it meant he had matched up his skills in motivating players and coaching offense with a reasonably solid defensive scheme (from Aters, it would seem?)

Then, they had the game at GS. Anyone else remember that one? The one with the blown 23-point lead? Giving up 36 points in the 4th Quarter? Where Mason's 32 points were wasted? Where, yes, Brendan sat for the final 5 minutes as the Wiz coughed up an 8-point lead. That to me was the omen of things to come. Aside from the loss of defensive focus, the overplaying of guys who were hurting was tough to watch.

Still, the positives for the season outweighed the negatives, IMO. Haywood played better - and was given the chance to be a central part of the team on both ends. Guys seemed to know their roles, and overall, played above their heads. All of this speaks well to the abilities of Eddie as a coach.

But this series has been disappointing. They overdid the rough-em-up strategy in the first two games. They had an outstanding game 3, but then fell back into their Achilles heel in Game 4, 3-point defense. How can you lose the game like that? How do you give up five 3-pointers in the 4th quarter, with only one 2-point basket? They'd have been far better giving up some fouls (esp. to Ben) or letting LeBron score from inside the arc. Why, oh why can't they stay at home on the 3-point shooters?

So what does it all mean?

My opinion is that EJ is a great coach for teaching his offensive system. He gets a lot out of many guys who never reached the same levels on other teams. But he has had a really poor defense throughout his tenure here - and it appears to me that it's more of a system issue than a personnel issue (they may not have many naturally gifted defenders, but there's no excuse to be that bad).

But the team needs to have real structure. Not just a smoothly running weave at the top of the key, but a coherent strategy on both ends of the floor. I look at coaches like Sloan, both Van Gundys, Popovich, Cheeks, and McMillan (plus, Byron Scott looks a lot better right now) - those guys almost always have teams that outperform their talent. At this point, I think I'd rather have a "system" coach who may be less exciting, but whose teams won't beat themselves.

Who are those guys? The same two that come to mind are the ones who have been on the radar all season - JVG & Rick Carlisle. Originally, I would have pulled for Carlisle, but now I'm thinking JVG. He has history with EG, and could put in a system that would certainly not give up a league record for 3-pointers made.

Right now, I'd be about 70-30 leaning toward making a change to bring in someone like JVG. This series isn't over, but if the team plays like it is in Game 5, we need a change.
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Post#51 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:39 pm

This series is over.

You don't beat team that's beat you 9 of 10 three straight times.

You don't beat a team that outrebounds you by 20 in your house three straight times.

You don't win two straight in Cleveland.

EJ doesn't coach defense and he tolerates bad shots from guys who do nothing but shoot.

This series is over and I'm 90% sure coaching and personnel need to change. This is a dumb team. DeShawn and Gil look like dummies to the rest of the league. Stevenson's earned a reputation as a thug.

The Wizards need to make some changes.
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Post#52 » by Silvie Lysandra » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:01 am

In short, it's a cultural problem. No accountability, no commitment to fundamentals, which leads to periodic team meltdowns, bad plays in critical moments, and in general, a low basketball IQ.

There's a lot of people on this team that Eddie has flat out ruined.

Can a better coach make Gilbert *get* it? Maybe, who knows. He had, and probably still has the same sort of ability of a Kobe/Wade/LeBron. But the terrible team culture that exists right now will probably keep Arenas from reaching that potential.
Let's face it, EJ has probably kept Haywood out of an All-Star game or two.
You can't help but think Blatche hasn't had his development stunted.

Just to name a few. All because Eddie Jordan has not provided the structure that will take a team to the next level.

And when that's the case, all the talent in the world will be for naught.
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Post#53 » by Bickerstaff » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:03 am

Chaos Revenant wrote:
There's a lot of people on this team that Eddie has flat out ruined.


It's statements like that that make me not take the Fire Eddie crowd very seriously.
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Post#54 » by DCZards » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:31 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:Let's face it, EJ has probably kept Haywood out of an All-Star game or two.
You can't help but think Blatche hasn't had his development stunted.\


Not to mention the utter silliness of statements like these.
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Post#55 » by Silvie Lysandra » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:46 pm

Not to mention the utter silliness of statements like these.


if Jamal Magloire could make an all-star game as basically a 13 and 10 player...in the West

But I don't know how you can argue jerking Haywood's chain in PT for 3 years didn't stunt his development. Or how putting a lot of guys who are young and somewhat immature (Arenas, Blatche, Young for example) in a situation where there hasn't been enough accountability for their immaturity doesn't stunt their development.
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Post#56 » by Donkey McDonkerton » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:52 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:
Not to mention the utter silliness of statements like these.


if Jamal Magloire could make an all-star game as basically a 13 and 10 player...in the West

But I don't know how you can argue jerking Haywood's chain in PT for 3 years didn't stunt his development. Or how putting a lot of guys who are young and somewhat immature (Arenas, Blatche, Young for example) in a situation where there hasn't been enough accountability for their immaturity doesn't stunt their development.


How many years ago was that?
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Post#57 » by WizStorm » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:54 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:
Not to mention the utter silliness of statements like these.


if Jamal Magloire could make an all-star game as basically a 13 and 10 player...in the West

But I don't know how you can argue jerking Haywood's chain in PT for 3 years didn't stunt his development. Or how putting a lot of guys who are young and somewhat immature (Arenas, Blatche, Young for example) in a situation where there hasn't been enough accountability for their immaturity doesn't stunt their development.
It was in the East ... the Hornets were still part of the Eastern Conference when he made the All-Star team.
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Post#58 » by LyricalRico » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:47 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:Yeah, that would suck - watching our boring team score 85 points per game in the Conference Finals.


:rofl:

Welcome aboard, Sev.
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Post#59 » by Severn Hoos » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:26 pm

LyricalRico wrote::rofl:

Welcome aboard, Sev.


Well, thanks. Keep a seat warm for me.

I haven't written off the team or EJ completely just yet. But I'd like to see how they respond in Game 5. Does the team think they're playing for their coach's future? How do they come out? Motivated or lethargic? Can they be mentally tough enough to win 3 in a row?

What I'm saying is that I don't think it's entirely beyond salvaging just yet. A listless performance in Game 5 would seal it for me (as would a 24 minute limit for Haywood, but I don't think EJ would do that at this point, with no real options at C).

But if they get beat the same ways as in the past (3-point shooting, small ball, etc.), I'd sign off on an upgrade - preferrably JVG.
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Post#60 » by penbeast0 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:59 pm

This is not the environment for a "my way or the highway" "take no prisoners" "kick ass and take names" (help . . . I'm running out of cliches) type coach and won't be as long as Abe Pollin owns the team.

Abe is a class act and remains loyal to his guys long past where other impatient owners would fire them. He's the same way about his players; he cultivates a personal relationship with them and wouldn't tolerate that type of coach. Accept that and look for a positive motivator.
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