Dez + 7th for Outlaw+Jack

chefy · Post #21 » by **chefy** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:29 pm

what do you guys think of this trade?

bell,barbosa,s&t girricek( filler),phx 08 1st (15 pick)

for

michael redd

phx's lineup

shaq,
amare,
redd,diaw
strawbery
nash

bucks rebuild

fam3381 · Post #22 » by **fam3381** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:31 pm

Simulack wrote:A #7 pick might be slightly high but I think Outlaw is already a better player than a lot of late lottery guys end up being.

I don't doubt that Outlaw probably ends up being more productive next year than whoever we pick, but we need to go for the home run in these sorts of situations. Outlaw gives you a solid wing player and Jack a solid backup-type PG, but those are known quantities and neither radically improves your team.

At the #7 spot there's always someone available who ends up being an all-star caliber player...the hard part is knowing who that guy is. Odds are we don't get a future star at #7, but there's a chance...

xTitan · Post #23 » by **xTitan** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:36 pm

chefy wrote:what do you guys think of this trade?

bell,barbosa,s&t girricek( filler),phx 08 1st (15 pick)

for

michael redd

phx's lineup

shaq,
amare,
redd,diaw
strawbery
nash

bucks rebuild

The Bucks new GM is placing an emphasis on defense and athleticism, nothing in the offer you put forward makes the Bucks any better, sure Raja Bell plays defense but he is a journeyman...Barbosa does not seem to be the type of player who can play in a half court system and Girricek is garbage....so this would not be happening based on what the Bucks new GM values in a player. I would think that Diaw would be the only player where there could be an interest.

Post #24 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:38 pm

Sim, I'd personally rather have guys like Nene and Hinrich as well compared to what we'd get back in this deal.

As far as Jack, we'd can get Duhon as a FA and that is better to me. I don't see Outlaw as worth it at all.

I might also rather have CV than those two guys if only because I think CV might have more trade value (i.e. Francisco Garcia)

midranger · Post #25 » by **midranger** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:13 pm

What is Gadzuric was substituted for Mason?

I still wouldn't do it.

LUKE23 · Post #26 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:15 pm

midranger wrote:What is Gadzuric was substituted for Mason?

I still wouldn't do it.

Agreed. The only reason I can justify moving the pick is if it's in a larger deal that lands a player better than Redd. Otherwise I think we can get a pretty nice player at 7.

NotYoAvgNBAFan · Post #27 » by **NotYoAvgNBAFan** » Thu May 1, 2008 6:31 am

Would absolutely love this trade!

No wait a minute, I did not see the 7th pick you got here. Make that more plain.

Say lottery pick, not just '7th' so I know right off. 7th what? It might not be 7th! It might end up lower then that...

I thought you just said Desmond Mason and perhaps Bell for Jack and Outlaw...straight up!

Now I would do that...

I would love Outlaw and Jack on this team! Both fill a need for us.

As much as I like Mason, I would do this deal and Charlie Bell for those two.

BUT NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DO WE DEAL A LOTTERY PICK OF ANY KIND FOR JUST THOSE TWO! Hell no...they are not that good!

But both Outlaw and Jack can defend! Portland are my boys in the West next year, and should concentrate their forces on getting Mike Conley instead of Mason...

Some Bucks' fans ask, "why would we do it?" Why the hell not if it does not involve that lottery pick!?

That lottery selection might end up being better then all of them! Portland fans dont :wavefinger:

be stupid... :crazy:

DanoMac · Post #28 » by **DanoMac** » Thu May 1, 2008 2:08 pm

Simulack wrote:I think our pick is being highly overvalued here. Look at the guys who have been drafted at the 7 spot since 2000:

2000: Chris Mihm
2001: Eddie Griffin
2002: Nene Hilario
2003: Kirk Hinrich
2004: Luol Deng
2005: Charlie V.
2006: Brandon Roy
2007: Corey Brewer

Hardly awe-inspiring talent. You've got a number of busts there and only two players to get really excited about in Deng and Roy.

I'm not saying I'd make the trade but IMO anyone who claims its completely horrible needs to look at NBA draft history. Its far from given you can even get a player of Outlaw's caliber there especially in a draft that is considered by many to be particularly weak.

In this trade we got a guy whose drastically older than most prospects and has already proven to at least be an NBA caliber player. A #7 pick might be slightly high but I think Outlaw is already a better player than a lot of late lottery guys end up being.

Randy Foye was the 7th pick in '06.

Not to mention I would take Nene, Hinrich, Deng, Villanueva, Roy, and Brewer over Jack and Outlaw.

DanoMac · Post #29 » by **DanoMac** » Thu May 1, 2008 2:11 pm

NotYoAvgNBAFan wrote:Would absolutely love this trade!

No wait a minute, I did not see the 7th pick you got here. Make that more plain.

Say lottery pick, not just '7th' so I know right off. 7th what? It might not be 7th! It might end up lower then that...

I thought you just said Desmond Mason and perhaps Bell for Jack and Outlaw...straight up!

Now I would do that...

I would love Outlaw and Jack on this team! Both fill a need for us.

As much as I like Mason, I would do this deal and Charlie Bell for those two.

BUT NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DO WE DEAL A LOTTERY PICK OF ANY KIND FOR JUST THOSE TWO! Hell no...they are not that good!

But both Outlaw and Jack can defend! Portland are my boys in the West next year, and should concentrate their forces on getting Mike Conley instead of Mason...

Some Bucks' fans ask, "why would we do it?" Why the hell not if it does not involve that lottery pick!?

That lottery selection might end up being better then all of them! Portland fans dont be stupid...

Simulack · Post #30 » by **Simulack** » Fri May 2, 2008 4:59 pm

DannoMac20 wrote:Randy Foye was the 7th pick in '06.

Not to mention I would take Nene, Hinrich, Deng, Villanueva, Roy, and Brewer over Jack and Outlaw.

Thanks for pointing out that error.

If I had to sort out that list relative to Outlaw, it would be:

Better: Deng, Hinrich

Same level: Villanueva, Nene, Foye

Worse: Mihm, Griffin, Brewer

Brewer's debatable but he's only a year younger than Outlaw and is currently a much worse player. I thought he was the most likely to be a bust prior to the draft last year (and repeatedly said I thought Thaddeus Young was a better prospect) and I certainly saw nothing this year to convince me otherwise.

Too hard to know where to put Foye because he has played so few games. He's probably got comparable value to Outlaw.

To me recent history shows the odds aren't any better than 50/50 we get someone better than Outlaw. Outlaw is still very young and arguably has as much "upside" as a number of prospects.

If you go back to 90's picks, it looks even bleaker.

I'd still pass on the trade. I know there is always someone taken 7 or later than turns out to be a steal and all-star caliber player. But what are our odds of getting that guy? I'm just trying to be realistic that they are not high and that we could easily get someone worse.