Denver and Dallas did not underachieve

richboy · Post #1 » by **richboy** » Thu May 1, 2008 4:49 am

There seems to be this feeling among the media that Denver and Dallas are these really talented teams that just can't put it together. Am I the only one who thinks that they lost because they don't have enough talent. IMO all these teams in the West have more talent than Denver and Dallas.

Lakers
San Antonio
Utah
Phoenix
New Orleans
Houston (with healthy Yao Ming)

The West may just be that good. You could have multiple all-star players and it still not be enough.

Post #2 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Thu May 1, 2008 4:51 am

They both lost to better teams, with better fitting pieces. Pretty simple.

Post #3 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Thu May 1, 2008 4:54 am

They were both better before trading for a sexy over the hill name. They won't get good value if they try and flip those players again.

TAI8 · Post #4 » by **TAI8** » Thu May 1, 2008 4:55 am

Denver should be a better offensive team. The AI and Anthony tandem validated to be a failure.

Dallas underachieved. How can a team play in the Finals and win 67 games the previous year and win 51 games with the core in place?

Post #5 » by **The Rebel** » Thu May 1, 2008 4:56 am

Denver has the talent, they just do not have any idea what a team concept is, and it showed on the court when they once again faced a very good team that works together.

Texas Longhorns · Post #6 » by **Texas Longhorns** » Thu May 1, 2008 5:02 am

They are both great teams, and I think they would be a number 4 and 5 team in the East.

Ortho Stice · Post #7 » by **Ortho Stice** » Thu May 1, 2008 5:03 am

The Nuggets are what the Knicks would be like in a best-case scenario. They have a bunch of players that are "talented," but they're all pretty inept at playing basketball the right way. Carmelo and AI are ballhogs and completely ruin the flow which is necessary in having a good basketball team. It's an alteration between AI dribbling for 15 seconds and then shooting a fade-away jumper, and then Melo dribbling for 15 seconds and shooting a fade-away jumper. They should've kept Andre Miller and hired a defensive-oriented coach. And honestly, Dallas shouldn't have tinkered with what they had last year. The Warriors as we all know were their Achilles' Heel, and they probably would've won the championship if they didn't run into them. Jason Kidd was just padding his stats in Jersey and even though he was almost averaging a triple-double, he was a shell of his former self. And plus his style of play didn't really fit with the Mavs. They just made a bad reactionary move, and now they're paying for it.

Post #8 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Thu May 1, 2008 5:21 am

I think the Nuggets are in the too good to be bad enough to get better hell until AI or K-Mart comes off the books. They really can't get rid of Carmelo, as much as I dislike him, he is a good player and can be better used with a better system. I don't think Denver can get the PG they need without giving up a part that is acceptable. Nene and Smith have some value, but they need to draft a sleeper to really help things out. AI would be an Arenas like pariah if they stumble upon a PG gem. Some players who are awesome to watch and put up big numbers just don't equal NBA success. Allen Iverson is one of those players.

Dallas should look to move Nowitski by the deadline next year if things don't look better. He is a good player and he can help a team take the leap, a la Gasol (though a **** deal helped there). Nowitski would look good in a Rocket uni. If they could build a package around Scola and Landry the Rockets could have the balance they need between T-Mac/Dirk offense and Yao/Battier Defense.

sweet_jesus · Post #9 » by **sweet_jesus** » Thu May 1, 2008 5:37 am

Never thought of the Nuggets as a successful version of the Knicks. I think thats a good comparison.

Dallas just needs retooling. The don't fix what isn't broken philosophy no longer applies to this team. Johnson took the blame for their failure and I doubt Cuban stops with just that single move.

I don't see how either underachieved. Both teams just barely made the playoffs and were beaten by higher seeded teams.

Chubby Chaser · Post #10 » by **Chubby Chaser** » Thu May 1, 2008 5:39 am

TAI8 wrote:Denver should be a better offensive team. The AI and Anthony tandem validated to be a failure.

Dallas underachieved. How can a team play in the Finals and win 67 games the previous year and win 51 games with the core in place?

Two words: Dirk Nowitzki

goat:manu · Post #11 » by **goat:manu** » Thu May 1, 2008 11:48 am

Dirk is fighting alone, and beside, KIDD can't fit with mavs. kidd is useless...

BassMaster · Post #12 » by **BassMaster** » Thu May 1, 2008 12:25 pm

idrinkrootbeer wrote:The Nuggets are what the Knicks would be like in a best-case scenario. They have a bunch of players that are "talented," but they're all pretty inept at playing basketball the right way. Carmelo and AI are ballhogs and completely ruin the flow which is necessary in having a good basketball team. It's an alteration between AI dribbling for 15 seconds and then shooting a fade-away jumper, and then Melo dribbling for 15 seconds and shooting a fade-away jumper. They should've kept Andre Miller and hired a defensive-oriented coach. And honestly, Dallas shouldn't have tinkered with what they had last year. The Warriors as we all know were their Achilles' Heel, and they probably would've won the championship if they didn't run into them. Jason Kidd was just padding his stats in Jersey and even though he was almost averaging a triple-double, he was a shell of his former self. And plus his style of play didn't really fit with the Mavs. They just made a bad reactionary move, and now they're paying for it.

I have to agree that Denver has a lot of talent, but known of their "stars" wanted to play as a team. That was the rub against AI and well Melo wants to be the star. Plus getting that DUI during the playoffs really didn't help the team. Melo is more out for himself instead of the team

Dallas wasn't killed by the trade, but they had a coach who could not bend with the flow when new players were brought into play. He did not get along with Kidd and failed to work with him and that failure cost the team as a whole and cost him his job. Do I see many changes with Dallas when it comes to players most likely not. Though there are two players who have to learn how to keep their mouths shut when it comes to Dallas players.
The Suns were on top of the West when they pulled this trade. They were a defensive up tempo team with a threat from outside after this trade they were slow and showed their lack of defense. Now they are saddled with Shaq's huge contract for a couple more years and not much to show for this trade.
The coach is being blamed now we are hearing that he wanted this trade, but I remember him say in the early days before this trade happened that he was happy with the players that he had. That this was more of a Steve Kerr ideal.
Well the biggest problem for the Suns head coach is that the owner and GM that brought him onboard are no longer with the Suns and the management group want their own man running the show. I think that is the primary reason the Suns head coach is most likely out of the door.
And if that is so then the Raptors will get rid of their head coach to hire 'Toni since the Raptors GM was with the Suns before Toronto.

That's everything in a nutshell for now. Except this T-mac should really keep his mouth shut when he wants to blame others it's not helping his team. Too bad for him just another shot at the playoffs and another early out and vacation. Too bad he left the Magic. Though I think they are better off without him.

NetsForce · Post #13 » by **NetsForce** » Thu May 1, 2008 1:18 pm

Dallas underachieved the Nuggets did not. Dallas just looked dysfunctional out there. They were too lackadasical and poorly organized on both offense and defense...

Anticon · Post #14 » by **Anticon** » Thu May 1, 2008 2:49 pm

TAI8 wrote:Denver should be a better offensive team. The AI and Anthony tandem validated to be a failure.

Dallas underachieved. How can a team play in the Finals and win 67 games the previous year and win 51 games with the core in place?

The Raptors also won 47 games last year. It wasn't that hard in the midst of tankapalooza.

Most teams simply weren't playing hard.

sp6r=underrated · Post #15 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Thu May 1, 2008 3:29 pm

Dallas screwed themselves with this idiotic Kidd trade.

Nutty Nats Fan · Post #16 » by **Nutty Nats Fan** » Thu May 1, 2008 5:21 pm

richboy wrote:There seems to be this feeling among the media that Denver and Dallas are these really talented teams that just can't put it together. Am I the only one who thinks that they lost because they don't have enough talent. IMO all these teams in the West have more talent than Denver and Dallas.

Can't speak about Dallas, but you are wrong about Denver. They are one of the more talented teams. The problem with Denver is the coaching. Or lack of it.

It isn't about AI being a ballhog. Karl told him to do that. It isn't about Melo, or anyone else. It is the fact Karl is no longer a good coach. His offense system was, quick shot, iso, dribble, quick shot.

He even basically said to the media he hasn't been trying to coach the past couple of years, but will step it up next year. How the heck does he keep his job? A better coach would have had them seeded higher and may have gotten them past the 1st round.

But that's the problem. Denver has a coach who wasn't trying, and they are imploding next year if Denver is dumb enough to keep him around.

JoshB914 · Post #17 » by **JoshB914** » Thu May 1, 2008 5:25 pm

You could make a legit argument that Dallas overachieved. That team is poorly constructued, they did not look like a 50-win team in the playoffs.

HarlemHeat37 · Post #18 » by **HarlemHeat37** » Thu May 1, 2008 5:30 pm

Denver is definitely one of the most talented teams in the NBA, I don't see how anybody can deny that..

they just can't win though..they aren't a well-built team..they have too many iso players, and not enough traditional role players IMO..their coach doesn't seem to understand what he's doing with his rotations and strategies..their defensive anchor can block shots and get rebounds, but can't rotate or play man defense..they don't seem to give a solid effort every night..almost every player on their team has bad shot selection, which is obviously terrible when the shot isn't falling..

this team is so good because it has so much talent..that's the reason they can win 50 games..but when it comes to playing a well-built team like the Lakers or Spurs, they won't be able to win a 7-game series..

triplet1984 · Post #19 » by **triplet1984** » Thu May 1, 2008 6:30 pm

I agree they just werent that good. Jason Kidd is overrated THESE DAYS, his numbers are uniformly unimpressive and he hasn't been a real intangibles leader in NJ or Dallas.

He WAS an amazing point guard... like 3 years ago, or when he plays with Kobe, Lebron and Melo in the Olympics.

Happyfoosball · Post #20 » by **Happyfoosball** » Thu May 1, 2008 6:44 pm

TAI8 wrote:Denver should be a better offensive team. The AI and Anthony tandem validated to be a failure.

Dallas underachieved. How can a team play in the Finals and win 67 games the previous year and win 51 games with the core in place?

They won 67 games but they didnt' make the finals last year they lost in the first round to Golden State.