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Atlanta Will Be The Easiest Loss To Handle

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Atlanta Will Be The Easiest Loss To Handle 

Post#1 » by spf211 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:47 pm

So a first round loss to the Atlanta Hawks has now gone from "impossible" to "unlikely," I've been looking at the rest of the playoffs and came to the conclusion that this might be the easiest loss to swallow.

From the Bill Simmons chat, which I agree with wholeheartedly:

The thing I liked about Doc during the regular season was that he tried to coach the same way for 82 games - he did a relatively good job sticking to a rotation, he built up confidence in the bench guys and he did a great job of cutting down the minutes for KG, Allen and Pierce in the final 2 months. Then the playoffs started and he coached each game like it had no correlation to the previous game or the first 82 games. He froze and he panicked. There's no other way to say it. We had 82 games to figure out the best 9 guys on this team and when they should play... and now it's Game 5 and nobody has any clue who the best 9 guys are because there's been so much overreacting and yanking around. That's not the coach's fault?


People can defend Doc to the end of time (or at least until a first round loss makes change apparent and necessary) but the bottom line is he's still the same guy who came in to Boston -- a great motivator who does well during an 82-game season where he can face a different team every night; but who chokes at the time when coaching is most needed (playoffs -- see Orlando, every year he was coach, but particularly v. Detroit in 2003 after going up 3-1 and watching as Rick Carlisle put little used rookie Tayshaun Prince on Tracy McGrady in Game 4 and Doc never finding an answer; and we all know the total Celtic meltdown in Game 5, 6 and 7 of the 2005 playoffs against Indiana -- which concluded with the worst home Game 7 loss in Boston's history).

It's still unlikely Ainge will fire Doc with a first round loss, but this is where the pressure will be greatest. So that's one silver lining. The real kicker here is that Danny was right about Doc for his first three seasons -- get a level-headed coach to help bring up your young players and build to a championship talent level.

Maybe the Celtics owe Doc a shot for dealing with the rebuilding process. He struggled through some bad years so he deserves at least one year with some real talent and a real shot to win a title. That year is this year -- and I can't see a scenario where anything short of an Eastern Conference Finals appearance -- a competitive appearance -- warrants keeping Doc in favor of dumping him for a true championship caliber coach.

And if you want precedent for replacing Doc, look no further than Detroit with Carlisle in 2003 -- Eastern Conference Finals appearance -- only to have Dumars realize the Pistons would need a better coach to put them over the top and hired Larry Brown; which got the Pistons a title in 2004.

But this all takes away from my main point...

Outside of the fact that a first round loss would put more pressure to replace Doc, probable losses in future rounds are going to be much more difficult than this one:

1) Second Round Loss to Cavaliers - A team stocked with former Celtics and LeBron's "too strong" antics would send me through the roof. Sure, the Wizards could still pull this one out too -- unlikely -- but wouldn't it be even more painful to lose to those cocky SOBs? Especially after the regular season series?

2) Eastern Conference Finals Loss to Detroit - Rasheed Wallace and Rip Hamilton heading back to the NBA Finals? That's enough to make me vomit. In the off chance that Orlando makes it here instead of Detroit, I could probably handle that on-par with a Hawks loss, but the Pistons? I don't know if I could handle losses at Auburn Hills without some serious intoxication.

3) NBA Finals Loss to the Lakers - As I've detailed in previous posts, this would be the worst of the worst. Kobe's pruning as the best player in the NBA. A championship win allows Phil Jackson to surpass Red Auerbach in rings. And it validates a horribly lopsided mid-season trade that only further propogates the belief that the NBA is rigged and Stern's office cuts corners to elevate high ratings teams.

A Finals Loss to the Spurs is also likely and though not as cataclysmic as a loss to the Lakers, the sting of Tim Duncan and the city of San Antonio getting the better of Boston again is too much to handle.

--

Right now, looking at Doc Rivers and his coaching performance, I think the second round is the most likely for the Celtics to drop out. And honestly, it might be better to happen then instead of the Eastern Conference Finals or a nightmare Lakers/Celtics Finals.

Doc has been overmatched by Mike Woodson and will be lucky to get out of the first round in 6 games (update: 7 games) and that's an absolute joke since there is no larger talent disparity in the playoffs this year. From here on out, the coaching and talent levels only get better -- Mike Brown has already proven he can take LeBron James and a bunch of also-rans past an ineptly coached Pistons, hate to say it, but he certainly can do it against an even more poorly coached Celtics.

I'll hold out faith, but the Celtics are a championship longshot with Doc holding the reigns. Hopefully Danny will have the balls to fix things before the window closes on Allen-Garnett-Pierce, which could be as early as next season.
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Post#2 » by Banks2Pierce » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:54 pm

Come on now. I'd rather make it to the Finals and lose than lose in disappointing fashion to the Hawks. All of the "we told you so" trolls on the board will not be bearable. So will you be rooting for a loss tonight? I don't get it.
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Post#3 » by greenbeans » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:00 pm

way to look on the brightside boss!!

there wil be no better loss, because there will be no loss period.
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Post#4 » by Andrew McCeltic » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:05 pm

Has any coach ever been fired in the middle of a playoff series?
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Post#5 » by FakeScreenName123 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:07 pm

LOSER TALK.



I expect better from you, spf.
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Post#6 » by CelticsWhat! » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:08 pm

andy582 wrote:Has any coach ever been fired in the middle of a playoff series?


According to some on this board, we've already lost this series. :noway:
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Post#7 » by return2glory » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:14 pm

Are you kidding me? :banghead:

This will be the easiest loss? Going 66-16 and losing in the 1st round will be the easiest loss???

I don't like Doc as our coach. He sucks at making adjsutments. That is known. But to lose in the 1st round and still have the possiblity of having Doc back next year. There is no bright side to that.

Look at George Karl. Here is another coach that can't win in the playoffs. His team just got swept and Denver is still keeping him.

I have no confidence in Doc. But we still need to win. He needs to somehow, by some miracle get his **** together.
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Post#8 » by MyInsatiableOne » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:17 pm

spf, usually I like your posts, but that was $hite, mate! :no: :rolleyes:
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
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Post#9 » by canman1971 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:12 pm

Just when you think it is safe to declare something is the dumbest thing you have ever read/heard, something always comes along to top it.
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Post#10 » by spf211 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:47 pm

Banks2Pierce wrote:Come on now. I'd rather make it to the Finals and lose than lose in disappointing fashion to the Hawks. All of the "we told you so" trolls on the board will not be bearable. So will you be rooting for a loss tonight? I don't get it.


I'm not rooting for a loss -- obviously I want the Celtics to win the championship. Some people want Hillary Clinton to be President, but at a certain point you come to the realization that it ain't gonna happen; at least not this year.

Doc helped me come to that realization after Game 4 -- I have a feeling more people will start to pick up on that soon; especially if we get into the second round.

It's a shame too because the consensus suddenly seems to be "KG can't get it done in the playoffs, look at his history" -- yet he's playing alongside two All-Stars, and KG has proven he can go far with marginal "scorers" in the past (Sprewell, Cassell) -- out of the entire team the only person who has proven an inability to win in the playoffs is Doc Rivers.

But I defy anyone to honestly say losing to the Cavs, Pistons and especially the Lakers wouldn't leave a worse taste in their mouths than a quick upset to the Hawks.
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Post#11 » by ermocrate » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:53 pm

spf211 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I'm not rooting for a loss -- obviously I want the Celtics to win the championship. Some people want Hillary Clinton to be President, but at a certain point you come to the realization that it ain't gonna happen; at least not this year.

Doc helped me come to that realization after Game 4 -- I have a feeling more people will start to pick up on that soon; especially if we get into the second round.

It's a shame too because the consensus suddenly seems to be "KG can't get it done in the playoffs, look at his history" -- yet he's playing alongside two All-Stars, and KG has proven he can go far with marginal "scorers" in the past (Sprewell, Cassell) -- out of the entire team the only person who has proven an inability to win in the playoffs is Doc Rivers.

But I defy anyone to honestly say losing to the Cavs, Pistons and especially the Lakers wouldn't leave a worse taste in their mouths than a quick upset to the Hawks.
If PP can come back to his old self and STOP being a Jump shooter maybe we can win this series...
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Post#12 » by Datruth345 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:00 pm

wack post
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Post#13 » by ParticleMan » Thu May 1, 2008 4:13 am

bizarre post.

anyway, it's great to see the Doc haters come out again now that we've lost a couple of games.

Doc is not that great at in-game adjustments, but he is quite good at game-to-game adjustments. I thought the team came out with a great gameplan tonight and really changed it up on JJ and the hawks, and they were flustered. the ball is in woodson's court now to turn the tide. it's a 7-game series, it's not worth panicking about 1 or 2 games.

as for BSG's comment... is he even watching the games? doc is most certainly using almost EXACTLY the same rotation he used at the end of the season. down to the exact minute when guys are coming in and going out. he has benched TA and BBD (which given how those guys have played this series you can't say is a bad decision), but otherwise it's the same guys playing the same mins, with the starters playing a bit more because after all, that's why we held their mins down during the reg season. in fact i was hoping he'd change it up a bit in game 4 but he didn't. if anything he's trying to coach EXACTLY like he did in the RS, which has actually hurt us a bit. But again, the playoffs are long and there will be a lot of time for between-game adjustments.

i'll be interested to see what the C's do in game 6. i thinl they should use the same strategy against JJ and see if the hawks can figure it out. the hawks are going to be nervous because their backs are against the wall, we just have to rattle them a bit.
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Post#14 » by sully00 » Thu May 1, 2008 4:27 am

Bill Simmons is a parasite and anyone who reads his drivel is sucker. He lives in LA and works for ESPN but he puts Boston in his handle and somehow he matters.

Coaches coach players play. Doc is the same friggin coach he was last season, just like he was the same coach tonight he was the last two games and so is Mike Woodson. Sam I am took the same lame ass shots tonight they fell the last two they didn't.

What were the differences tonight? We shot 53% instead of 40%. We kept them off the offensive glass. We took Bibby out of the game (or he took himself out).

I am not saying Doc didn't do a better job of getting the ball out of JJ's hands or realize he better get Tony Allen's feet wet. Your missing the point if you think that Doc Rivers is the difference between being 25 points better at home and 10 points worse on the road. But of course that isn't it he is only responsible for the losses.
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Post#15 » by Celtic Esquire » Thu May 1, 2008 4:30 am

spf211 shows why he is one of the best members on this board.

I agree with him 110%.

Now let's win #17 and make the both of us eat crow.
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Post#16 » by yodi184 » Thu May 1, 2008 4:37 am

Maybe let's just wait for Popovich or Jackson to leave their current teams... Oh wait, did you have a replacement in mind?
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Post#17 » by yodi184 » Thu May 1, 2008 4:38 am

IMO, I'd rather watch the Celtics longer.. Losing to the Hawks would definitely be the hardest to take since I got to watch only a little of the Celtics this year in the Playoffs
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Post#18 » by GuyClinch » Thu May 1, 2008 5:49 am

Bill Simmons is a parasite and anyone who reads his drivel is sucker. He lives in LA and works for ESPN but he puts Boston in his handle and somehow he matters.


Agreed. Simmons nonsense that losing to the Hawks would be better then losing to the Lakers in the finals is right up there with "Ewing Theory" drivel he spouted in the past.

And it's not far behind from the idea pushed that the Sox fan NEEDED the hopeless feeling of knowing they will lose to bring purpose to their life.. <g>

All of it is just crap. I hate to break it to Simmons but I'd rather be a Patriots fan and lose in the Super Bowl then a Colts fan and just get punked early on..

If you actually like sports and enjoy watching your team you want to see them play more big games and not less. It's really that simple. Then again since Simmons is a season ticket holder for the Clippers maybe he likes the idea of missing the playoffs so as to avoid "pain."

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Re: Atlanta Will Be The Easiest Loss To Handle 

Post#19 » by BeanTownBrawler » Thu May 1, 2008 10:03 am

spf211 wrote:So a first round loss to the Atlanta Hawks has now gone from "impossible" to "unlikely," I've been looking at the rest of the playoffs and came to the conclusion that this might be the easiest loss to swallow.

From the Bill Simmons chat, which I agree with wholeheartedly:

The thing I liked about Doc during the regular season was that he tried to coach the same way for 82 games - he did a relatively good job sticking to a rotation, he built up confidence in the bench guys and he did a great job of cutting down the minutes for KG, Allen and Pierce in the final 2 months. Then the playoffs started and he coached each game like it had no correlation to the previous game or the first 82 games. He froze and he panicked. There's no other way to say it. We had 82 games to figure out the best 9 guys on this team and when they should play... and now it's Game 5 and nobody has any clue who the best 9 guys are because there's been so much overreacting and yanking around. That's not the coach's fault?


People can defend Doc to the end of time (or at least until a first round loss makes change apparent and necessary) but the bottom line is he's still the same guy who came in to Boston -- a great motivator who does well during an 82-game season where he can face a different team every night; but who chokes at the time when coaching is most needed (playoffs -- see Orlando, every year he was coach, but particularly v. Detroit in 2003 after going up 3-1 and watching as Rick Carlisle put little used rookie Tayshaun Prince on Tracy McGrady in Game 4 and Doc never finding an answer; and we all know the total Celtic meltdown in Game 5, 6 and 7 of the 2005 playoffs against Indiana -- which concluded with the worst home Game 7 loss in Boston's history).

It's still unlikely Ainge will fire Doc with a first round loss, but this is where the pressure will be greatest. So that's one silver lining. The real kicker here is that Danny was right about Doc for his first three seasons -- get a level-headed coach to help bring up your young players and build to a championship talent level.

Maybe the Celtics owe Doc a shot for dealing with the rebuilding process. He struggled through some bad years so he deserves at least one year with some real talent and a real shot to win a title. That year is this year -- and I can't see a scenario where anything short of an Eastern Conference Finals appearance -- a competitive appearance -- warrants keeping Doc in favor of dumping him for a true championship caliber coach.

And if you want precedent for replacing Doc, look no further than Detroit with Carlisle in 2003 -- Eastern Conference Finals appearance -- only to have Dumars realize the Pistons would need a better coach to put them over the top and hired Larry Brown; which got the Pistons a title in 2004.

But this all takes away from my main point...

Outside of the fact that a first round loss would put more pressure to replace Doc, probable losses in future rounds are going to be much more difficult than this one:

1) Second Round Loss to Cavaliers - A team stocked with former Celtics and LeBron's "too strong" antics would send me through the roof. Sure, the Wizards could still pull this one out too -- unlikely -- but wouldn't it be even more painful to lose to those cocky SOBs? Especially after the regular season series?

2) Eastern Conference Finals Loss to Detroit - Rasheed Wallace and Rip Hamilton heading back to the NBA Finals? That's enough to make me vomit. In the off chance that Orlando makes it here instead of Detroit, I could probably handle that on-par with a Hawks loss, but the Pistons? I don't know if I could handle losses at Auburn Hills without some serious intoxication.

3) NBA Finals Loss to the Lakers - As I've detailed in previous posts, this would be the worst of the worst. Kobe's pruning as the best player in the NBA. A championship win allows Phil Jackson to surpass Red Auerbach in rings. And it validates a horribly lopsided mid-season trade that only further propogates the belief that the NBA is rigged and Stern's office cuts corners to elevate high ratings teams.

A Finals Loss to the Spurs is also likely and though not as cataclysmic as a loss to the Lakers, the sting of Tim Duncan and the city of San Antonio getting the better of Boston again is too much to handle.

--

Right now, looking at Doc Rivers and his coaching performance, I think the second round is the most likely for the Celtics to drop out. And honestly, it might be better to happen then instead of the Eastern Conference Finals or a nightmare Lakers/Celtics Finals.

Doc has been overmatched by Mike Woodson and will be lucky to get out of the first round in 6 games and that's an absolute joke since there is no larger talent disparity in the playoffs this year. From here on out, the coaching and talent levels only get better -- Mike Brown has already proven he can take LeBron James and a bunch of also-rans past an ineptly coached Pistons, hate to say it, but he certainly can do it against an even more poorly coached Celtics.

I'll hold out faith, but the Celtics are a championship longshot with Doc holding the reigns. Hopefully Danny will have the balls to fix things before the window closes on Allen-Garnett-Pierce, which could be as early as next season.



AGREE 100% :clap:
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Post#20 » by Dogen » Thu May 1, 2008 11:48 am

Gracious! Taking the logic of the OP to a more extreme conclusion, perhaps it would have been better if we didn't make the playoffs at all, thus making it not so hard on us. Wha?
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