Trade situation in the Trade Board.

[yearsago]

Someone made a hypothetical, What kind of package might possibly be able to land Lebron James.

Someone suggested (if we get top 2 pick) and Durant for Lebron.

If we got Rose, would you guys trade Rose and Durant for Lebron?

[nwsports253]

The Lebron to Portland deal is worse then Durant and #2 lol

[yearsago]

The Lebron to Portland deal is worse then Durant and #2 lol

Yes it is..there was another one for Roy, LMA

[bennith13]

I would rather have the pair of Durant and Rose then just Lebron

[sonic-ben]

ditto

[TheUrbanZealot]

Sorry, I will take Lebron 100 tmes out of 100.

Lebron is a player that comes once every millenium. He is on the level of Jordan, Magic, Kobe...

Durant is very very talented, but not remotely comparable to James (other than #'s).

Lebron not only takes over a game, but can make everyone around him better.

I would make that trade in 1/2 heartbeat...

[Hiphophead101]

next years first rounder. I want Rose and LeBron.

[Sonics3408]

Durant and Rose could very well be better, but I'd have to go for the sure superstar.

EDIT: I dunno. I instantly feel guilty for doubting Durant after posting...

[OzThunder]

it's funny, as much as i love durant i can't see how he could possibly take over lebron and become a better player.

[BenjaminH]

I have to agree with The Urban Zealot, Sonics 3408, and Seattle Fan 35. Well, I would disagree with Sonics 3408 about feeling guilty. Of course, Cleveland fans would not take this seriously.

[AbdicatedReign]

No thanks.


LeBron is a talented player, of course. A once in a lifetime type, talent-wise. But he reminds me more of Vince Carter/Tracy McGrady than Michael Jordan. I'll be shocked if he ever wins a title as the locus of a franchise.

Durant, on the other hand, is a winner, he reminds me more of Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. Obviously he isn't those players, but his ability to thrive when the game is hanging in the balance, and his desire to take big shots is what ultimately makes one a champion in this league (combined with otherworldly talent and a well-built supporting cast, of course). His stats in the last five minutes and OT of close games are second only to Bryant, in fact. Durant is a killer, and that is what LeBron will likely never be. I have various theories on that, I won't go into them, but I don't say this without forethought.

These statements seem ridiculous given the two teams' respective positions, but I firmly believe them.

Add in Rose to the mix, who I also see as a winner, and I value those two as a tandem much more than I value LeBron James.

[Yoshi2kx]

No thanks.

His stats in the last five minutes and OT of close games are second only to Bryant, in fact.

Source? Sounds interesting.

[BenjaminH]

Well, Abdicated Reign, I have to disagree with you just solely on the basis of how you view James. I used to hold you more deflationary view, that James is overrated and will never win a title. At first, I wasn't even convinced that he deserved the rookie of the year award over Anthony. More recently, I even struggled to hold that view when he led his team to the playoffs last year. But he has kind of won me over. Imagine Carter in the place of James on the Cav's roster last year. Such a roster might not even make the playoffs, much less the NBA finals.* I tend to put him more in the Jordan and Kobe category because he makes his teammates better and he does everything well. He also has the size and athleticism. Don't get me wrong, he still falls short of the Jordan/Kobe category, but I think he is closer than Durant. So too, my preferring James is not supposed to be a criticism of Durant.

* I avoided talking about McGrady because of all of the arguments about the Rockets' success this year. Personally, I think McGrady is somewhere in between Carter and Kobe ... but, when healthy, slightly closer to Kobe.

[yearsago]

If it was Lebron for Durant I would of course Take Lebron.

But if its Lebron for Durant and the high expectation of Rose, Its hard to do that trade.

It would be like trading Kobe for Payton and Kemp, or Stockon and Malone.

[Patches Pal]

I would not do a deal for Lebron. The reason is not talent but money. Seattle does not have the talent to surround either player right now. They can be patient with Durant because he is younger and cheaper. Taking on Lebron means you need to win right now. LJ would grow impatient on the Sonics as he was at Cleveland prior to the trade. His salary would make it difficult to add the pieces to go deep into the playoffs.

[AbdicatedReign]

Well, Abdicated Reign, I have to disagree with you ...

I should have specified that I mean prime Vince Carter (circa 2000). Who was a jumpshot away in 2001 from doing what LeBron's Cavs did last season (upset a favored team for the honor of getting crushed by the current Western power).

Like Carter (who I maintain is the most talented player ever to play this game), LeBron's preternatural ability during his athletic prime is enough to overwhelm his opponents and lift his teammates to victory over the bottom 75-85% of NBA teams, simply because he is an unmatched force. But, when confronted with a better team who can counter his brilliance (see: Spurs, 2006), he lacks the sufficient drive/heart/killer instinct to adapt his game to win championships. Jordan went through this in his early career (as is well documented), and went from someone who could put up ridiculous numbers and lose, to someone who put up slightly-less ridiculous numbers and won, a lot. Carter met that resistance and wilted, he lacked the drive, winning wasn't what motivated him. I feel the same about LeBron. Ultimately, he isn't hungry. He doesn't need to win to secure his well-being. Jordan was borderline-psychotic with his desire to win. Kobe is the same way. What Deshawn Stevenson said about LeBron v. Kobe is right. He said he can sleep the night before be plays James, but he's up all night when he knows Kobe is next opponent. LeBron, ultimately, is an entertainer. He (as he's said) wants to be a global icon, he wants to be a brand, an image, so he's fine putting on a show, and going home at the end of the day, win or lose. Kobe, on the other hand, could care less about putting on a show. He steps on the court to demoralize and completely destroy his opponent. He knows a show will be put on anyway, but he's not concerned with it., his main objective to complete and total domination. I don't see the same with LeBron.

[BenjaminH]

Good arguments all. Upon reflection, I must admit that it is a much tougher decision than I thought. Durant and Rose for James, a two for one, sort of evens the scales. And, yes, salary-wise, building a supporting cast around Durant and Rose would be much easier than building a supporting cast around James at this point.

Abdicated Reign, I see your point. But take Bryant or Jordan and swap him with James on last year's Cav's roster. I doubt such a roster could have defeated the Spurs. Same deal with Carter's Raptors. So, purely on value, I think it is still a pretty close call. Of course, I concede that Bryant is obviously a better player than James at this point. But I'm not sure if I agree that James lacks that extra competitiveness you're talking about. His showmanship certainly doesn't preclude it. And I rarely see him making poor decisions for the sake of that showmanship. Moreover, I think, the competitiveness can develop as James becomes a veteran - as I think it developed with Byrant and Jordan. Besides, James was still pretty competitive in the playoffs last season - more so, in my opinion, than Carter was on the old Raptors.

Where I think James has a slight edge over Bryant, actually, is his size and athleticism. Recall what Prince said. He used to say that Bryant was the hardest player in the league to guard, but now he says it is James. At least Prince has a few inches on Bryant, and the freakish wing-span. But in the case of James, Prince is guarding a 6 ft 9 in, 260 lb guy. James is strong and powerful enough to guard most power-forwards, but quick and agile enough to guard most point-guards. Because of this combination, he is nearly unstoppable in isolation plays when he drives to basket. Bryant is clearly the more talented player now. James is still a mediocre shooter. But, in my estimation, James could be an equal, if not better, player in a few years. With a slightly better supporting cast, I think, he can (and will) win a championship someday.

[wiff]

I have a question for you guys. Consider both LeBron and Kobe are the same age would you trade Kobe for LeBron?

Now what if Kobe was younger than LeBron would you trade Kobe for LeBron?

I know LeBron gets his numbers and he makes his team better, but Kobe is a killer. I view Durant more in the mold of Kobe than LeBron.

I don't think Durant is ever going to be the passer than LeBron, but Durant is a very underrated passer.

He's great at delivering the little bounce pass to the right when he comes off a screen. That right there should be good for two or three assists a game next year. Plus Durant rebounding numbers will go up too. But the guy is going to be an assasin and although LeBron can do it all, I would have to think long and hard about trading just Durant for LeBron.

Then add in all the rest of the details and the up side of Derrick Rose and no way am I even considering this deal.


On a side note, LeBron is amazing, but I don't see him winning a ring in Cleveland. His GM Danny Ferry seems to be afraid of LeBron by making moves than make LeBron happy as opposed to making moves that are best for the team. Kobe wasn't happy last year but if they traded Bynum away for Kidd last year you think Kobe would be as happy as he is now?

Ferry hasn't set up his team with cap space to go after a free agent and his free agent signings or re-signings have been questionable. Larry Huges was given too much money. (Stop right there Dick I have always said I would not have given Huges that kind of money even though I wanted the Sonics to sign him). Ilgauskas was on the wrong side of 30 when he signed his deal. Taking on Ben Wallace's contract was stupid and taking on Wally Z contract questionable as well. All these guys are second or third tier players.

But LeBrons biggest problem is that he is too good. In the East LeBron can simply "will" his team into the playoffs. And therefore will never get any real help from the lottery. So his GM makes moves that are completely short sited and he doesn't get help from the lottery. Eventually he is going to get tired of mediocrity and split town.

The best thing that could happen to LeBron and Cleveland fan would be the same thing that happened to David Robinson. Have something break miss a season have the Cavs be the joke of the league and win the Lotto.

Otherwise he is just going to spin his wheels in Cleveland get fed up and split. Because he is just too good to be on a bad team in the East.

[BenjaminH]

Wiff, I pretty much agree with you on your assessment of James and how he will fare in Cleveland.

The one minor point, which I have already addressed, is that it is not clear that James lacks the competitiveness, or what you call a "killer" instinct, that Kobe has. James certainly is not as competitive as Kobe (or, e.g. Garnett) at this point. But even with Kobe, the competitiveness needed some development. I expect James to become much more competitive the longer he goes without winning a ring. Besides, he never does anything that is anti-competitive. His (what Abdicated Reign called) "showmanship" never really hurts the team. By contrast, I think that he is usually a pretty good competitor. Recall the first round series the year before last year against the Wizards. (That was a great series!) James was the go-to guy and made some incredibly clutch plays to win some games they really shouldn't have won. Also, recall the Eastern Conference finals against the Pistons last year when James scored all of those points in a row. I think that the "killer" instinct is there, but he doesn't always show it yet. You guys may be right, James may never develop it fully. But, I think there is good prima facie evidence to think he will. So, I would still do a Durant for James trade.

As far as your point about Durant and Rose outweighing James, I have sort of conceded this. I was thinking it would be an easy decision to take James. But upon reflection, you guys may be right. The two for one makes it a tough decision. I honestly don't know what I would do if I were Presti and Ferry made me that offer ...